DJ VinylTouch
With respect to this point:
The stems+fx pad mode now disables the stem it is placed on (e.g. vocals), but if you disable it, it now re-enables the stem. As much as I know this was requested, this is different to how it used to behave before, where you could disable the vocal stem separately from the fx application, and it would stay disabled if the stem fx is switched off.
Now you have to treat the fx pad as the disablement, which means you can't switch it off while it is still working without turning back on the stem, which caught me off guard at least a couple times on trials with the Vocal Echo Out.
If possible it would be good to have the old behavior as optional, or at least have the new behavior keep the stem off if we disable the pad fx (because at least to me, that is what the stem pad going off implies - it is now off, and that should be independent of the pad fx state, on or off).
Also, the point also implies that coloredWaveformsDynamicStems option should control that, but it doesn't (and at first glance, that option doesn't seem like it should be related to pad behavior).
Quote :
-VinylBrake and Echo Out when applied to stems will also disable stems for visual confirmation on pads and waveform when coloredWaveformsDynamicStems active
The stems+fx pad mode now disables the stem it is placed on (e.g. vocals), but if you disable it, it now re-enables the stem. As much as I know this was requested, this is different to how it used to behave before, where you could disable the vocal stem separately from the fx application, and it would stay disabled if the stem fx is switched off.
Now you have to treat the fx pad as the disablement, which means you can't switch it off while it is still working without turning back on the stem, which caught me off guard at least a couple times on trials with the Vocal Echo Out.
If possible it would be good to have the old behavior as optional, or at least have the new behavior keep the stem off if we disable the pad fx (because at least to me, that is what the stem pad going off implies - it is now off, and that should be independent of the pad fx state, on or off).
Also, the point also implies that coloredWaveformsDynamicStems option should control that, but it doesn't (and at first glance, that option doesn't seem like it should be related to pad behavior).
Inviato Tue 04 Aug 26 @ 11:46 pm
DJ VinylTouch
Side note: With this change there is also some more inconsistency with the resetStemsOnLoad=pad option.
The Vocal Echo now (imo correctly) resets to off on new track load if it was enabled for the previous track, but the other effects (e.g. Inst BtGrid) remain on.
The Vocal Echo now (imo correctly) resets to off on new track load if it was enabled for the previous track, but the other effects (e.g. Inst BtGrid) remain on.
Inviato Tue 04 Aug 26 @ 11:52 pm
Adion
Why would you ever do a vocal echo out if the vocal stem is already off?
Inviato Wed 05 Aug 26 @ 2:44 am
DJ VinylTouch
That's not the sequence, as it wouldn't work.
The sequence is to start the vocal echo with it on, and while it is on (which captures the number of beats for use with the effect), then switch the stem off.
The real problem for me is that disabling the vocal fx switches the stem back on (the vocal fx and stem fx are no longer independent).
The sequence is to start the vocal echo with it on, and while it is on (which captures the number of beats for use with the effect), then switch the stem off.
The real problem for me is that disabling the vocal fx switches the stem back on (the vocal fx and stem fx are no longer independent).
Inviato Wed 05 Aug 26 @ 3:22 am
Adion
But since the stem is already off, you can just keep it off until you want it on again?
Inviato Wed 05 Aug 26 @ 4:03 am
DJ VinylTouch
It is true I can use the stem fx to keep it off, but that is a conscious change I have to make in playback, and it means I can't disable the effect early without the stem coming back.
I can understand why the FX pad disablement switches the stem off, but I don't readily understand why switching the the stem FX pad off, after it switches the stem pad off, turns the stem pad on again, because then the behavior before the change makes more sense to me (the fx is applied on the stem, and can fade it out in terms of intensity, but the stem part is still active (and visually shown so), so if I disable the effect at any time, the stem will play).
I can understand why the FX pad disablement switches the stem off, but I don't readily understand why switching the the stem FX pad off, after it switches the stem pad off, turns the stem pad on again, because then the behavior before the change makes more sense to me (the fx is applied on the stem, and can fade it out in terms of intensity, but the stem part is still active (and visually shown so), so if I disable the effect at any time, the stem will play).
Inviato Wed 05 Aug 26 @ 4:27 am
Adion
Imo it better matches visual with expactation.
When you turn on the effect the stem is no longer audible, so the only reasonable action after that should turn the stem back on. (And visually, you are reminded by this either by seeing an effect is still active, or the stem mute button is on, so if you forgot it's easy to correct either way)
Turning the effect on, just to after that turn off the stem separately and then turn off the effect seems unnecessarily complicated to achieve the same thing?
When you turn on the effect the stem is no longer audible, so the only reasonable action after that should turn the stem back on. (And visually, you are reminded by this either by seeing an effect is still active, or the stem mute button is on, so if you forgot it's easy to correct either way)
Turning the effect on, just to after that turn off the stem separately and then turn off the effect seems unnecessarily complicated to achieve the same thing?
Inviato Wed 05 Aug 26 @ 7:26 am
DJ VinylTouch
Adion wrote :
When you turn on the effect the stem is no longer audible
So the only reasonable action after that should turn the stem back on. (And visually, you are reminded by this either by seeing an effect is still active, or the stem mute button is on, so if you forgot it's easy to correct either way)
When you turn on the effect the stem is no longer audible
So the only reasonable action after that should turn the stem back on. (And visually, you are reminded by this either by seeing an effect is still active, or the stem mute button is on, so if you forgot it's easy to correct either way)
So yes and no. It is true that the effect manipulates the stem, but the stem fx and the stem part itself are separate things (and that's even shown on the pad itself) - this is the case with all other effects that don't really cut the continuation of the stem part and this is an active choice to make this be different. Given you can start with it on (captures the beatlength to work on), the user had the free choice of manipulating each separately, so that you can determine if switch the effect back off would re-enable the stem or not. To me I could tell if the stem was enabled and an effect was enabled for toggle by the effect by immediately watching the pad on and immediately cut it off to get back the stem based on any effect/position on the Stem+FX pad. Now I have to consciously remember what effect is being executed on the stem and how the FX enablement/disablement behaves in that position. An unrealistic thing to do in reality but I haven't tried it yet - what would happen if you disable the stem first and then toggle that effect, would it switch the stem back on?
Remember this was the behavior prior to this version with mostly no complaints (and since the introduction of Stem FX) - are you saying the behavior was incorrect/a bug since stem FX introduction?
Inviato Wed 05 Aug 26 @ 12:01 pm
Adion
I still don't understand when you need any choice. Once the echo out finished there is no difference between echo out being active or the stem being muted, so the only other thing you could possibly need at that time is to bring the stem back. Nothing to remember now, since either way to bring it back works fine now.
Inviato Wed 05 Aug 26 @ 2:22 pm
DJ VinylTouch
Adion wrote :
I still don't understand when you need any choice. Once the echo out finished there is no difference between echo out being active or the stem being muted, so the only other thing you could possibly need at that time is to bring the stem back.
So I normally use the Echo Out to kill the vocal stem, but in the past, that pad FX never reset on load of new track, so I would disable the vocal stem and then disable the effect in preparation for a new load.
There were also rare cases where I would use the Echo Out and cut the vocal stem immediately and then cut the Stem FX once it was pretty in audible (again in prep for next track load).
Adion wrote :
Nothing to remember now, since either way to bring it back works fine now.
Nothing to remember now, since either way to bring it back works fine now.
Based on what I described above I have to remember that, when the stem pad goes off due to the effect, turning off the effect now restores it - so now I have to remember to leave the effect enabled and depend on stems reset on load behavior.
I also want to test the sequence I described (disable the stem, turn on stem FX (no effect/reasonable use case outside of user error), turn off the stem FX) to see if the stem comes on again (imo that would be un expected, as it would now mean I could hit stem FX in error, and then I would think to immediately disable it, and all of a sudden the stem returns in mew versions).
It's not that the new behavior isn't reasonable, it's that the old behavior isn't unreasonable - it existed for 5 years (at least), and persons may have gotten accustomed to that workflow, and the default behavior was changed because someone who uses other (potentially more popular) software and gotten accustomed to that workflow didn't see that same workflow here.
Inviato Wed 05 Aug 26 @ 2:58 pm