mikeoftexas
I have been told that I must purchase this fine proggy in order for me to suggest that this beast needs 24 bit support. With all due respect I have no need for this unless it supports 24 bit files. I can't buy it unless it has what I need. This proggy is cool but my business needs compatibility before it invests. I have tried the trail and I like it so far. My dreams came crashing down when it couldn't play 24 bit files.
I loaded my 24 bit and it only makes a loud hiss :( What I would like to see in this mighty fine app is TRUE 24 bit support. I work with professionals and they expect the best. Thanks for reading.
I loaded my 24 bit and it only makes a loud hiss :( What I would like to see in this mighty fine app is TRUE 24 bit support. I work with professionals and they expect the best. Thanks for reading.
Inviato Thu 24 Feb 05 @ 2:47 pm
mikeoftexas
Great support! Not!
Inviato Mon 28 Feb 05 @ 7:08 am
apopsisdj
Lets see your problem, i'm not support stuff though.
I made a "compatibility test" after reading this post, with various sample rates/bit resolutions using .wav files and you're right. My surprise was that sample rates beyond 44k (48k, 96k) are also not supported -testing was done with 24/96 soundcards- even if 48k mp3 files are playing fine, that's strange.
So why this limitation is/was not a problem (until now) for the majority of users ?
Because vdj is designed for use with compressed audio files (mp3 etc.) and these files are limited to 16 bit, that's why 24/96 support is ignored or in low priority by the programmers.
To finish my post i agree to your request, because i also use 24bit files but in production (cubase) and not live at the moment ..
I'm sure, the more users ask for it, more chances to see this soon.
You can ..wait or buy and ask again (more chances if you ask as full user), or look elswhere if vdj is not what you need.
That's my opinion.
George V.
I made a "compatibility test" after reading this post, with various sample rates/bit resolutions using .wav files and you're right. My surprise was that sample rates beyond 44k (48k, 96k) are also not supported -testing was done with 24/96 soundcards- even if 48k mp3 files are playing fine, that's strange.
So why this limitation is/was not a problem (until now) for the majority of users ?
Because vdj is designed for use with compressed audio files (mp3 etc.) and these files are limited to 16 bit, that's why 24/96 support is ignored or in low priority by the programmers.
To finish my post i agree to your request, because i also use 24bit files but in production (cubase) and not live at the moment ..
I'm sure, the more users ask for it, more chances to see this soon.
You can ..wait or buy and ask again (more chances if you ask as full user), or look elswhere if vdj is not what you need.
That's my opinion.
George V.
Inviato Mon 28 Feb 05 @ 11:17 am
bagpuss
24 bit is just not needed.
Technically 24 bit is the best, but a well encoded mp3 sounds to the human ear identical.
I respect your need for quality, but there is no need to be extreme, you will never tell the difference, and neither will the people...
my opinion is you should just take the quality of a cd and encode it to a high quality mp3, listen and compare, you'll see you have 2 identical copys of the same track.
No problem, you have a high quality digital file..
Technically 24 bit is the best, but a well encoded mp3 sounds to the human ear identical.
I respect your need for quality, but there is no need to be extreme, you will never tell the difference, and neither will the people...
my opinion is you should just take the quality of a cd and encode it to a high quality mp3, listen and compare, you'll see you have 2 identical copys of the same track.
No problem, you have a high quality digital file..
Inviato Thu 03 Mar 05 @ 4:50 pm
mikeoftexas
BAAHAHAHAA! You are obviously no sound engineer. MP3's sound horrible to the trained ear. You cannot work with such low resolution when messing with the guts of a sound file. Ask a sound engineer what the 1,000,000 problems you have with mp3s and he'll tell you. No they do not sound the same. You don't pay close enough attention but hey thats not your job. Next time try paying very close attention to the almost silent parts of a song (It can sound robotic, scratchy or flangy) or notice that the compressed file has less sparkle. Besides mp3s completely cut off everything above 15k or 16k and that a trained ear can hear. Extreme is not the word. This just isn't pro yet with all due respect to this fine app with a great scratching sound. You are talking about 16 bit CD sound compared to 16bit compressed mp3 sound and the difference might not be very much (To me it is) but to get from 96k 24bit to tiny mp3 16bit 44k requires alot of data loss and there is a huge difference in sound.
Thanks for reading.
Thanks for reading.
Inviato Thu 03 Mar 05 @ 10:19 pm
apopsisdj
I agree because i am a sound engineer. And all the production world has moved to 24/96.
-But virtual dj is a Dj mixing program, and for normal dj usage only compressed files are used in most cases.
At the other hand, i can't see why to not to support these files.
It will not hurt anyone.
(Winamp, media player and other dj programs already support 24/96 files)
@mikeoftexas: i remember sometime i made tests for 128 mp3 files using an analyzer and indeed, all frequencies above 16K was cutted...
Is it the same for 192 (or higher bitrate) files ? have you test it ?
-But virtual dj is a Dj mixing program, and for normal dj usage only compressed files are used in most cases.
At the other hand, i can't see why to not to support these files.
It will not hurt anyone.
(Winamp, media player and other dj programs already support 24/96 files)
@mikeoftexas: i remember sometime i made tests for 128 mp3 files using an analyzer and indeed, all frequencies above 16K was cutted...
Is it the same for 192 (or higher bitrate) files ? have you test it ?
Inviato Thu 03 Mar 05 @ 10:45 pm
mikeoftexas
I have used Steinberg Mastering edition and with its SpectroGraph to find this out and yes some do actually keep about 30% - 40% of the higher frequencies. But it didnt keep them on all the files I tried them on. If I use MP3 I use no less than 320kbps. If I encode my songs into MP3 I never go below 320k. :D I master at 24/96 or 48 but if I wanted to run it through Virtual DJ I couldn't. I would have to dither/resample it down to 16/44k and then run it through VDJ and then I would have to stay there. I can't master anything after it goes through VDJ. I would love to run a 24/96 file through VDJ and after all my scrathing and chopping master it good AND THEN dither/resample to CD standards. I will pay what ever price VDJ asks me because there are no other Virtual turntable proggies that support 24/96. Thanks for reading.
Inviato Fri 04 Mar 05 @ 3:14 am
SZ-B
seriously! that´s what i´ve been asking for over and over again!! we DO need a 24 bit 96khz support! maybe all you mp3 users don´t need that (if you use mp3´s you don´t really care about quality anyway) . i´m using 24b/95k WAVE files and you CAN hear a difference when converting them to 16b/441khz . i´m using vdj for scratching , and if you move the record very slow , a 16bit sample starts to make "digital" sounds . you can try it for yourself . i played around with a scratch software from a different manufacturer (ser... scratch l. ) that supports 24bit and it sounds the same with 16b but WAY better with 24b .
i´m thinking about buying ssl instead of vdj but the price still keeps me undecided .
if vdj would support 24bit 96khz wave files then there would´nt be a doubt what to buy .
i´m thinking about buying ssl instead of vdj but the price still keeps me undecided .
if vdj would support 24bit 96khz wave files then there would´nt be a doubt what to buy .
Inviato Fri 04 Mar 05 @ 7:06 am
mikeoftexas
What is ssl? thanks
Inviato Tue 08 Mar 05 @ 7:15 am
SZ-B
ssl ist a software/hardware that is similar (well - even better ...) than vdj . just search with google for ser... scratch live (i don´t know if i´m allowed to write the full name here)
it has a 24 bit soundcard included , 2 timecode records , 2 timecode cd´s and cables & software .
but the price is much higher .
and best of all : they really care about their users and reply when someone´s asking for something in their forum.
it has a 24 bit soundcard included , 2 timecode records , 2 timecode cd´s and cables & software .
but the price is much higher .
and best of all : they really care about their users and reply when someone´s asking for something in their forum.
Inviato Tue 08 Mar 05 @ 9:32 am
djcel
"and best of all : they really care about their users and reply when someone´s asking for something in their forum."
I don't think they answer in less than 10 min like in this forum ;-)
But of course Professional Edition Users have priority
I don't think they answer in less than 10 min like in this forum ;-)
But of course Professional Edition Users have priority
Inviato Tue 08 Mar 05 @ 1:14 pm
mikeoftexas
Thanks so much SZ-B. I will check it out.
Inviato Tue 08 Mar 05 @ 1:57 pm
SZ-B
quote "I don't think they answer in less than 10 min like in this forum ;-)"
dude , they haven´t written a single word about the 24 bit question . not even a "we don´t plan to include a 24bit support" or anything . so who´s answering where in 10 minutes ? sure noone from the support staff here.
dude , they haven´t written a single word about the 24 bit question . not even a "we don´t plan to include a 24bit support" or anything . so who´s answering where in 10 minutes ? sure noone from the support staff here.
Inviato Tue 08 Mar 05 @ 5:58 pm
bagpuss
I nearly became a sound engineer, but I realised as much as I liked music, I didn't want to work in that environment and work in such a science, wasn't interested enough, So I took sports science instead.
my mp3 files are encoded through cdex and set at a variable bit rate, most of my files average between 400 and 500 kbps, sometimes more sometimes less..., through my big speakers I get a very good sound, no shitty hisses or pops, just clean sound.
of course technically there is a difference, quite a strong difference, which i recognise, but i'm satisfied with the sound I get, no one has ever said the sound is is less than perfect.., ok you can, and people who are educated on sound engineering can, but the ones that matter are those that are subjected to the sound down the club..., (no complaints there or anywhere)...
plus there are international (so called superstar dj's), who use mp3/software.., and continue to be successful...
Now i'm not trying to play the smart one here, I don't know everything.
If what you say is true, that a high quality mp3 still isn't good enough.., then the only current solution is to use either cd or a wave file (uncompressed), isn't a wave file extracted from a cd still 16 bit?..
If so, when is all the 24 bit music, playback devices, mixers etc going to be avaliable?..
I saw some gear released that was 24 bit, but not enough for the change. also consider the average clubs sound system (often pa), so the best sound on earth will not come out of many systems in place.., (clubs don't often replace there speakers, amps etc, especially in those countrys outside the EU and U.S), I'm in eastern europe by the way..
so now I can extract from my cd's to create an uncompressed wave file at 16 bit, I can do that, and will if it is needed, it will take time, but I am willing only if that is the way it has to be?...
please write more to get your point across to people like me (who aren't sound engineers), because what you've said isn't in my opinion enough to win more support of the other users..
Thanks alot, Bagpuss
my mp3 files are encoded through cdex and set at a variable bit rate, most of my files average between 400 and 500 kbps, sometimes more sometimes less..., through my big speakers I get a very good sound, no shitty hisses or pops, just clean sound.
of course technically there is a difference, quite a strong difference, which i recognise, but i'm satisfied with the sound I get, no one has ever said the sound is is less than perfect.., ok you can, and people who are educated on sound engineering can, but the ones that matter are those that are subjected to the sound down the club..., (no complaints there or anywhere)...
plus there are international (so called superstar dj's), who use mp3/software.., and continue to be successful...
Now i'm not trying to play the smart one here, I don't know everything.
If what you say is true, that a high quality mp3 still isn't good enough.., then the only current solution is to use either cd or a wave file (uncompressed), isn't a wave file extracted from a cd still 16 bit?..
If so, when is all the 24 bit music, playback devices, mixers etc going to be avaliable?..
I saw some gear released that was 24 bit, but not enough for the change. also consider the average clubs sound system (often pa), so the best sound on earth will not come out of many systems in place.., (clubs don't often replace there speakers, amps etc, especially in those countrys outside the EU and U.S), I'm in eastern europe by the way..
so now I can extract from my cd's to create an uncompressed wave file at 16 bit, I can do that, and will if it is needed, it will take time, but I am willing only if that is the way it has to be?...
please write more to get your point across to people like me (who aren't sound engineers), because what you've said isn't in my opinion enough to win more support of the other users..
Thanks alot, Bagpuss
Inviato Tue 08 Mar 05 @ 9:08 pm
mikeoftexas
The resolution just isn't there with MP3s. When you take low resolution MP3 and mix them you get q errors and distortion (Horrible distortion). 16 bit clips when working with. 24 bit gives you lots of room to work with. I just cannot believe people don't realize how "buzzy" MP3's are. Let me make a point. No one pays attention to the hiss in radio music. It doesn't bother them. But it is there. It's natural over the air waves. You can always tell radio music from CD music can you people not? Yes you can. Now then imagine recording that radio music and working with it professionaly. It can't be done. You will be working with low level hiss. The resolution that came from the original CD is gone. It sound nice to listen to the air and hiss in radio music but it's not possible to take apart and work with. Catch my point? Thanks for reading :D
Inviato Wed 09 Mar 05 @ 3:19 am
Dach
I think complaining about any DJ software not offering 24-bit support is like complaining that Microsoft Word doesn't play MP3's. That's not the intended purpose of the software. VDJ is not intended for high-end music production. Where do you even find 24-bit music? CD's are all 16-bit. There is a very limited amount of music released in DVD-audio, but not enough. Also, a DJ needs to carry hundreds, if not thousands, of songs to meet all the needs of different gigs. There's no way we'd be able to fit all the songs on a single hard drive, and carrying around multiple terabytes of hard drives defeats the purpose of a "portable" DJ setup.
Maybe VDJ should support 24-bit sound, but it shouldn't be a priority, and it definitely shouldn't be at the expense of other areas VDJ could improve, that would actually be of use to most DJ's.
Maybe VDJ should support 24-bit sound, but it shouldn't be a priority, and it definitely shouldn't be at the expense of other areas VDJ could improve, that would actually be of use to most DJ's.
Inviato Fri 11 Mar 05 @ 9:55 pm
mikeoftexas
No one is complaining brother. I'm just trying to help. I can't stop laughing right now. Goodbye.
Inviato Fri 11 Mar 05 @ 9:59 pm
SZ-B
mikeoftexas : i agree !
btw: there are several digital - vinyl manufacturers who support 24 bit ( serato scratch live (ssl) , final scratch 2 (fs2) etc) .
WHY 24 BIT ? if you record samples from a drum machine or any other music instrument (guitar,your voice etc) you WILL notice a difference between 16 and 24 bit . and even techno djs use voices sometimes . if you play live at a club it probably doesn´t matter if you have 24 bit or not but when you record your songs it does matter .
i´m saving my money for ssl right now . i played around with it and it´s just awesome !
btw: there are several digital - vinyl manufacturers who support 24 bit ( serato scratch live (ssl) , final scratch 2 (fs2) etc) .
WHY 24 BIT ? if you record samples from a drum machine or any other music instrument (guitar,your voice etc) you WILL notice a difference between 16 and 24 bit . and even techno djs use voices sometimes . if you play live at a club it probably doesn´t matter if you have 24 bit or not but when you record your songs it does matter .
i´m saving my money for ssl right now . i played around with it and it´s just awesome !
Inviato Sat 12 Mar 05 @ 8:05 am
djjb
but vdj has a lot more futures then ssl.
it's just a mather of what you want.
i read the forum there. and they where asking new thing that vdj already had when it came out.
it's just a mather of what you want.
i read the forum there. and they where asking new thing that vdj already had when it came out.
Inviato Sat 12 Mar 05 @ 8:34 am
mikeoftexas
In the future most cd's will be 24bit. VirtualDJ will evolve into a software/hardware setup like protools. 24bit will naturally be supported.
When you slow down a song in MP3 format it sounds aweful and distorted were as in 24bit and actual vinyl it sounds very smooth and undistorted when slowed down. The reason I work with 24bit is bcuz I have to slow or speed up songs all the time digitaly and with 24bit you have a lot of room to work with and you get less distortion. My two cents.
When you slow down a song in MP3 format it sounds aweful and distorted were as in 24bit and actual vinyl it sounds very smooth and undistorted when slowed down. The reason I work with 24bit is bcuz I have to slow or speed up songs all the time digitaly and with 24bit you have a lot of room to work with and you get less distortion. My two cents.
Inviato Sat 12 Mar 05 @ 9:09 am
