cadmeister
I can't be alone on this subject, I've even submitted a ticket asking about this and the response was quick to point out that DRM files will not be playable in Version 8?
How can something so simple become unsupported or missing?
I've used the software since version 5 and DRM has never had an issue playing until Version 8.
How can something so simple become unsupported or missing?
I've used the software since version 5 and DRM has never had an issue playing until Version 8.
Inviato Thu 29 May 14 @ 2:34 am
markdeejay75
i spent nearly £100 at 7Digital believing that previous virtualdj editions could handle DRM but noooooo
they show in search, they go to load on a deck, a popup window appears asking for the DRM credisentials then that passes but vdj never continued to load the files. many of which were music videos :(
windows media player kinda played them but wanted login for every play...
as i gave up on DRM already i never even gave it a thought to test with v8
they show in search, they go to load on a deck, a popup window appears asking for the DRM credisentials then that passes but vdj never continued to load the files. many of which were music videos :(
windows media player kinda played them but wanted login for every play...
as i gave up on DRM already i never even gave it a thought to test with v8
Inviato Thu 29 May 14 @ 9:26 am
dj aladin
I agree. This is a ridiculous "feature" to leave out. It's not even a feature! It's a core part of EVERY player on ANY PC. Why would you leave that out? Please explain that to me. Explain to me why I should stick with Virtual DJ and not go with Serato or Traktor at this point, since they both allow DRM files (as they should). I can't speak for Mac owners, but playing DRM protected WMA files is just part of what Windows "does". Making your software NOT be able to play them seems like bullying us into paying for YOUR subscription now.... but it's really just bullying a lot of us into switching software. It seems to me that the return you'll get from selling your side service will not outweigh the business you could potentially lose by turning away existing supporters (I "sell" every DJ I know on why I use VDJ) as well as potential new users. I HEAVILY encourage Atomix Productions to rethink this strategy and implement the playing of DRM files asap. I've never been disappointed in VDJ until now.
Inviato Thu 29 May 14 @ 9:30 am
SBDJ
As the OP was informed in the ticket we do not currently support DRM protected files in Virtual DJ 8.
I don't see how not playing DRM files bullies you into buying a subscription - the vast majority of files are not DRM protected?!
I don't see how not playing DRM files bullies you into buying a subscription - the vast majority of files are not DRM protected?!
Inviato Thu 29 May 14 @ 9:52 am
groovindj
If you're a subscriber to a service such as Rhapsody or Zune then all the files are DRM protected, as that's the way the service works.
When using VDJ 7, it was possible to download a file from one of these services (to meet a customer request for example) and play it in VDJ.
Considering that Content Unlimited uses DRM, it's understandable that having the functionality to play other DRM files removed seems like a restriction.
When using VDJ 7, it was possible to download a file from one of these services (to meet a customer request for example) and play it in VDJ.
Considering that Content Unlimited uses DRM, it's understandable that having the functionality to play other DRM files removed seems like a restriction.
Inviato Thu 29 May 14 @ 10:12 am
dj aladin
SBDJ wrote :
As the OP was informed in the ticket we do not currently support DRM protected files in Virtual DJ 8.
I don't see how not playing DRM files bullies you into buying a subscription - the vast majority of files are not DRM protected?!
I don't see how not playing DRM files bullies you into buying a subscription - the vast majority of files are not DRM protected?!
Are you sure about that? Because I had a buddy DJing with me side by side on Saturday night, and he couldn't play any of his cached Content Unlimited / Grooveshark files because he let his subscription lapse. He re-upped his subscription and lo and behold, those same files played fine once again (as they should). And as I said before, Virtual DJ 8 had to be programmed NOT to play these DRM protected files, as that content protection is built into Windows in general. In essence, Virtual DJ CHOSE to break DRM from working within their program... unless you use their service. How is that NOT bullying? I'm not trying to be combative. I'm trying to figure out why the software I have loved for years suddenly wants to break what was already working as intended.
Inviato Thu 29 May 14 @ 10:15 am
SBDJ
dj aladin wrote :
Are you sure about that? Because I had a buddy DJing with me side by side on Saturday night, and he couldn't play any of his cached Content Unlimited / Grooveshark files because he let his subscription lapse. He re-upped his subscription and lo and behold, those same files played fine once again (as they should).
Yes, that is how our service works. But your choice is not exclusively between our service and another DRM service - you have the option to play from non-DRM sources which is actually where the majority of peoples music comes from. Use dropping support for 3rd party DRM does NOT force you to use our service.
dj aladin wrote :
And as I said before, Virtual DJ 8 had to be programmed NOT to play these DRM protected files, as that content protection is built into Windows in general.
groovindj wrote :
Considering that Content Unlimited uses DRM, it's understandable that having the functionality to play other DRM files removed seems like a restriction.
DRM decoding is entirely dependant upon the audio/video decoders used. From a technical perspective you would have to use the MS decoders to do that DRM. Microsoft have chosen to deprecate the interfaces to these decoders, asking developers to use new ones. These new ones only work on newer operating systems than those we support. So we'd have to support 3 different decoding interfaces, and these would only be PC anyway.
Our own DRM is supported obviously since we have the code to be able to do so.
In v8 we are presently using our own internal decoders and at present we have no DRM support outside of that we can implement ourselves. Whether external codec support - and thus DRM support - will return or not is something I cannot comment on myself.
Inviato Thu 29 May 14 @ 10:25 am
dj aladin
SBDJ wrote :
Yes, that is how our service works. But your choice is not exclusively between our service and another DRM service - you have the option to play from non-DRM sources which is actually where the majority of peoples music comes from. Use dropping support for 3rd party DRM does NOT force you to use our service.
Yes, that is how our service works. But your choice is not exclusively between our service and another DRM service - you have the option to play from non-DRM sources which is actually where the majority of peoples music comes from. Use dropping support for 3rd party DRM does NOT force you to use our service.
If I want a monthly subscription to unlimited music at one price... yes, it does force me to use your service, as you've decided not to support any others whatsoever. All of the other such legal services are DRM protected, as that is the only way they can negotiate contracts with music companies and reasonably insure you will continue to pay the subscription fees.
As for the codecs issues... You already have rights to the codecs in your software in version 7. So the explanation of Microsoft wanting you to create your own codecs and such doesn't really seem to apply. You already have the codecs. Drop them in and we are off and running.
Again, I'd like to know the actual reason that support was removed. If it's a business move to drive to us to Atomix's subscription product, just say so. No need to be shady about that. It's completely within Atomix's rights to support or not support what they choose. Consequently, I always have the choice to fall back to VDJ 7 or go to ANY of the other competitors that actually do support Rhapsody and Zune DRM. And I will say that for me personally, this will be a HEAVY factor in which controller and software combination I go with when I upgrade in the next month or two. I'm already starting with and relearning a new software in VDJ 8. If I have to go through that process anyway, why wouldn't I choose one that does what I've always came to expect, since all the others do? Removing DRM support seems like a terrible business decision from the standpoint of us users of other subscription services. Apple lost a lot of potential ipod users to inferior competitors for not supporting WMA. I'd hate to see Virtual DJ lose users over what seems to be such an easy thing to implement.
Inviato Thu 29 May 14 @ 10:54 am
SBDJ
I don't think you actually read my post at all.
Basically in v8 we support no external codecs AT ALL. It isn't a simple matter of 'dropping them in' it requires a bit more work than that!
Basically in v8 we support no external codecs AT ALL. It isn't a simple matter of 'dropping them in' it requires a bit more work than that!
Inviato Thu 29 May 14 @ 11:02 am
dj aladin
I definitely did read your post. Please don't get defensive, as I do fully appreciate Virtual DJ 8 as I did Virtual DJ 7. But Virtual DJ is an audio/video program. It's primary job first and foremost is to run audio and video codecs. It's been in development for years. Supporting existing codecs should be one of the first things done. After all.... IT IS AN AUDIO VISUAL PROGRAM.
Asking for DRM support is not asking for much at all. We shouldn't have to ask for a Windows audio program to play Windows audio at all. It should just be there and do it.
Asking for DRM support is not asking for much at all. We shouldn't have to ask for a Windows audio program to play Windows audio at all. It should just be there and do it.
Inviato Thu 29 May 14 @ 11:22 am
rlove
I've written decoding codecs for a number of open source audio programs on both Mac and PC... Come on Atomix, it's really not that difficult. I can likely write support for Zune and Rhapsody in under a week...
Inviato Thu 29 May 14 @ 11:45 am
vdboc
With DRM enabled on a Windows computer (from XP to 8.1), DRM songs play, no matter the player. That is the default. For DRM songs to play, you simply do nothing. For DRM songs NOT to play, you need to take deliberate steps to prevent them from playing. Being a programmer, I once created an extremely basic dj program, and of course DRM songs played. My thoughts: I don't understand the contention that allowing DRM songs to play requires too much extra programming effort. And even if it did require some additional programming effort in this case, consider... VDJ8 has been in development for three years and has met a great many phenomenal programming challenges. Surely, a matter like allowing DRM songs to play could be accomplished relatively easily, especially since all previous versions already accomplish this. Just my humble thoughts.
Inviato Thu 29 May 14 @ 6:20 pm
cadmeister
Well, this post took off running, let me say this though "I use many music services to keep up with the changing taste in music, And the problem is that i actually work every weekend like many of you and have to get the clients taste in music whatever that may be, and yes I've used Zune to accomplish this, from Hindi music to Spanish & many,many classics that you may only play a few times. But also tracks from a current album that are not hits but requested. This will not ruin everything as i can still use 7.4.1 to do all of this but should the day come i will be out nearly 27,000 DRM tracks as well as playlists that i use for the clients events, and replacing what will not play will be next to impossible."
In closing if you made it this far in my post this is the official Ticket response i received:
"Date: Thu 29 May 14 @ 2:32 pm
Teamer: Support Staff
Message:
Hello,
Our current internal coding does not support DRM protected files. This may be added in the future but is currently not a priority.
Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.
Kind regards,
VirtualDJ Support Team"
I do still think it's ridiculous that DRM was left out of Version 8 and maybe if we keep the discussion going The support team will help to get DRM playable in the near future.
In closing if you made it this far in my post this is the official Ticket response i received:
"Date: Thu 29 May 14 @ 2:32 pm
Teamer: Support Staff
Message:
Hello,
Our current internal coding does not support DRM protected files. This may be added in the future but is currently not a priority.
Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.
Kind regards,
VirtualDJ Support Team"
I do still think it's ridiculous that DRM was left out of Version 8 and maybe if we keep the discussion going The support team will help to get DRM playable in the near future.
Inviato Thu 29 May 14 @ 9:27 pm
dj aladin
It's nice to know that your 27,000 songs that have always worked with DRM in previous versions of VDJ and all other DJ software on the market are "currently not a priority" to the company that has always supported them in the past. You're right. It is ridiculous. Now I must basically make all of my DRM protected files illegal if I want to use them with the new software. Thanks for dropping the ball on the simplest function of your program.... playing music.
Yes, I'm frustrated and disappointed. I truly expected more from the latest and greatest version of one of the most popular pieces DJ software on the planet. Honestly, I feel a bit blindsided that something so rudimentary is broken, and on purpose. I didn't see this as even a possibility while I anticipated Version 8. This should be a priority to be implemented immediately (and as several other programmers throughout the forums have said, easily).
Yes, I'm frustrated and disappointed. I truly expected more from the latest and greatest version of one of the most popular pieces DJ software on the planet. Honestly, I feel a bit blindsided that something so rudimentary is broken, and on purpose. I didn't see this as even a possibility while I anticipated Version 8. This should be a priority to be implemented immediately (and as several other programmers throughout the forums have said, easily).
Inviato Thu 29 May 14 @ 9:50 pm
cadmeister
You know originally when i started DJing digitally, I was using PCDJ but that was certainly a long time ago and i used DRM to quickly build up a music selection, i'm thinking it was 2005-2006. But that software sucked hard so i tried everything available from TRAKTOR to Serato,Ableton,ETC.
To the point, None of that software would play any DRM and Virtual DJ was the only one that would. So after many years of using Virtual DJ, playing bars&clubs, parties and weddings i'm left with a very large library of DRM.
I'm still very sure that no other software works with DRM and perhaps thats one of the very things that made Virtual DJ so Unique to me.
I guess i will just be stuck with 7.4.1 indefinitely
To the point, None of that software would play any DRM and Virtual DJ was the only one that would. So after many years of using Virtual DJ, playing bars&clubs, parties and weddings i'm left with a very large library of DRM.
I'm still very sure that no other software works with DRM and perhaps thats one of the very things that made Virtual DJ so Unique to me.
I guess i will just be stuck with 7.4.1 indefinitely
Inviato Thu 29 May 14 @ 10:05 pm
dj aladin
On further research, it seems you may be right about other DJ software not playing DRM protected WMA. So I apologize for saying "every other software has it". However, that really doesn't lessen my disappointment. I stopped buying CDs and started subscribing to Napster (which was also integrated into previous versions of VDJ), and then Napster was bought by Rhapsody, and I continued my subscription.
Anyway.... Fix it. Please. Thank you.
Anyway.... Fix it. Please. Thank you.
Inviato Thu 29 May 14 @ 10:29 pm
Dev staff
VirtualDJ 8 has a totally rewritten audio engine, and unlike version 7, doesn't rely at all on external libraries like QuickTime or WindowsMediaSDK to decode its files.
VirtualDJ is not just a "media player" with play and pause, it needs to be able to seek to cue points with a perfect precision for example, which your average media player cannot do if it uses the OS-provided decoding libraries.
So no, we didn't remove DRM compatibility for dubious marketing reasons, anybody familiar with Atomix Productions and what we accomplished in the past 20 years will tell you that this is not how we do business.
We removed it because our engineers tried to optimize our audio engine to deliver better performances.
And because they saw that the latest DRM schemes would never work in VirtualDJ (and don't work in VirtualDJ 7) because they require the media player to let the "trusted" library (in this case WMSDK) send the decoded sound directly to the soundcard itself (which obviously defeat the purpose of a DJ software).
So they decided that this function was not needed anymore and should be replaced by more optimized code.
Obviously, that was an "engineer" decision, but like they say, the customer is king, so if we still have customers who are relying on the older DRMs that used to work in v7, we'll have to find a way to make this work in v8 too.
Like explained above, VirtualDJ is not a simple media player, so adding back some functions to let Windows handle our decoding, and therefore being able to play simple DRM files, is not something that can be done very easily.
So, I don't think we'll be able to squeeze this into a 8.0.xxx patch.
But, we will try to get this done for 8.1.
VirtualDJ is not just a "media player" with play and pause, it needs to be able to seek to cue points with a perfect precision for example, which your average media player cannot do if it uses the OS-provided decoding libraries.
So no, we didn't remove DRM compatibility for dubious marketing reasons, anybody familiar with Atomix Productions and what we accomplished in the past 20 years will tell you that this is not how we do business.
We removed it because our engineers tried to optimize our audio engine to deliver better performances.
And because they saw that the latest DRM schemes would never work in VirtualDJ (and don't work in VirtualDJ 7) because they require the media player to let the "trusted" library (in this case WMSDK) send the decoded sound directly to the soundcard itself (which obviously defeat the purpose of a DJ software).
So they decided that this function was not needed anymore and should be replaced by more optimized code.
Obviously, that was an "engineer" decision, but like they say, the customer is king, so if we still have customers who are relying on the older DRMs that used to work in v7, we'll have to find a way to make this work in v8 too.
Like explained above, VirtualDJ is not a simple media player, so adding back some functions to let Windows handle our decoding, and therefore being able to play simple DRM files, is not something that can be done very easily.
So, I don't think we'll be able to squeeze this into a 8.0.xxx patch.
But, we will try to get this done for 8.1.
Inviato Thu 29 May 14 @ 11:53 pm
cadmeister
"So, I don't think we'll be able to squeeze this into a 8.0.xxx patch.
But, we will try to get this done for 8.1."
Great news for anyone following this post i think, that at least it will be looked into.
I've never been disappointed with VDJ & as I've said before if you're also having issues with this then stick to 7.4.1 or earlier until this gets added back in.
Virtual DJ 8 is a brand new software & though it may look like the old familiar program it's entirely new. while i was waiting for version 8 i've tried serato DJ and really like it but there is sooo much more to version 8 that serato can't do. I believe what they have accomplished will be a "game changer" but until it can play all media sources of audio a lot of us will never get to enjoy whats truly possible.
But, we will try to get this done for 8.1."
Great news for anyone following this post i think, that at least it will be looked into.
I've never been disappointed with VDJ & as I've said before if you're also having issues with this then stick to 7.4.1 or earlier until this gets added back in.
Virtual DJ 8 is a brand new software & though it may look like the old familiar program it's entirely new. while i was waiting for version 8 i've tried serato DJ and really like it but there is sooo much more to version 8 that serato can't do. I believe what they have accomplished will be a "game changer" but until it can play all media sources of audio a lot of us will never get to enjoy whats truly possible.
Inviato Fri 30 May 14 @ 5:51 am
DeadMan3000
I've followed the DRM debacle for many years. It's something I myself refuse to submit to. I can understand why they do it. I understand 'some' content is not available by legal means without it. But I simply refuse to cave into it. If something is not available DRM free I simply will not buy it. Morals be damned.
Inviato Fri 30 May 14 @ 11:10 am
groovindj
DJ_Craig wrote :
If something is not available DRM free I simply will not buy it.
In most cases now, the only files with DRM protection are subscription (rented).
When you buy a track there's no DRM. That went out of favour a long time ago.
Inviato Fri 30 May 14 @ 11:16 am
