VDJ Ron
..and Bennett don't talk to me, I don't want to know you.
You offer nothing.
Look at the state of your comment.
It helps no one.
I do help, and I'm not trying to sell.
I suppose I often tread on the toes of those seeking to sell, however I do my best to tell the truth.
That is more than can be said for most of the music industry.
You offer nothing.
Look at the state of your comment.
It helps no one.
I do help, and I'm not trying to sell.
I suppose I often tread on the toes of those seeking to sell, however I do my best to tell the truth.
That is more than can be said for most of the music industry.
Inviato Fri 22 Jan 16 @ 4:06 pm
PhantomDeejay
bigron1 wrote :
Well I suggest you wise guys go and buy your speakers, but don't look at the RMS power, you don't need it do you?
The SPL will do you fine.
However this only tells you what 1W of power is doing.
Knowing what 1W of power is doing in isolation is useless.
The SPL will do you fine.
However this only tells you what 1W of power is doing.
Knowing what 1W of power is doing in isolation is useless.
Sensitivity of a speaker is measured on db SPL and YES, it's measured with 1Watt power consumption.
Actually sensitivity is X db/1W/1m (X amount of db's output with 1 Watt power consumption at 1 meter distance)
HOWEVER: db MAX SPL is the sensitivity number "multiplied" by the Watts the speaker can handle
So, for 2 speakers with the same sensitivity more watts equals more db max SPL.
For different sensitivity, more watts does not equal necessarily more db max SPL because Watts are multiplied with sensitivity!
And since db's follow the logarithmic scale, a 3db difference in sensitivity are enough for a speaker to require HALF watts to sound the same with another one.
So, in the world of professional PA a 101db/W/m 1000W speaker is preferred versus a 98db/W/m 2000W speaker even if both produce the same loudness.
The reason is quite obvious: The first speaker requires HALF the power to run. When doing PA you can't draw unlimited current (Amperes) from your electrical supply board. Even if you could, the more Watts an amplifier must provide, the bigger & heavier it gets, and the more easily it can heat up which effectively reduces it's power production ability. Even with digital amplifiers the more power draw you require out of them the bigger their dumping factor* gets. (*-> Dumping factor = The ability of an amplifier to produce/provide the amount of current requested by the speaker on time. Consider it as a latency of the amplifier. There's huge difference on how fast an amplifier can go from 10Watts to 500Watts power production VS go from 10 Watts to 1000Watts power production)
If you ever wondered why digital amplifiers may sound a little dull when driving big subs, that's why... Their dumping factor is not capable enough to handle the power draw of the sub on time!
Remember why we use RMS values in the first place: Speakers don't draw a "flat" amount of current. They constantly consume different amount of power (because sound is a wave with peaks and valleys) . The amplifier that tries to feed them with power follows the same pattern. So, for a drummer monitor for instance, the amp merely provides 10-15Watts when he hits snare, hi-hats e.t.c. However as soon as he hits a tom, power consumption climbs to 50Watts. And when he hits the kick, power consumption will rise to 350-500Watts.
Now, how fast the amp can go from 15 or 50 Watts to 500Watts power production is what we call dumping factor.
And the laws of physics say that the bigger the difference from "low" to "high" power production, the more time the amp will need to catch up.
Finally one other thing to consider (and I will stop here) is that the more current flows inside a speakers coil the more easily it heats up and the more easily the harmonics of the current can distort. This means that the efficiency of the speaker is bound to get reduced in time, and also increase the chances of the speaker to blow up if you overdo it.
Of course when manufacturers say that a speaker can handle 2000Watts it's safe to assume that it won't blow up with such a power consumption. However if the coil of the speaker heats up a lot (eg the speaker is placed outside on direct sunlight and therefore it can't have proper ventilation) then there's a bigger chance to blow it up than if it was a 1000Watts speaker.
Inviato Fri 22 Jan 16 @ 6:56 pm
A Man and His Music
You guys are funny. Some of you have provided an education to those that don't know, and some just want to listen to themselves talking. You have really taken this to a whole "nother" level of confusion. I have tried to keep it simple. I can say that out of all the years I have been doing this, the maximum SPL has only been a glance to me, and never figured in my decision to buy equipment. It's loud, we know it's loud, that's what we do is loud. My decision to buy, always started with the speaker. How many watts can it handle continuously (RMS), the peak it can take, the ohm, and how much does it weigh. As Cerwin Vega said, "Loud is beautiful, if it's clean". Now we know that all speakers are not made equal, so I only dealt with the mid to upper end of the known brands, you know, people with reputations.
My amplifiers had to be capable of producing more power than the RMS of my speaker, with little THD, what is the THD above rated power, and Frequency Response for what I'm driving, and how much does it weigh. I give a glance at the input sensitivity, but that was it for me. Again, I only dealt with the known players. I do the same for powered speakers now. I mean, you get out of them, what you put in. I believe that most equipment with the same price point, will give you similar results and because we are not the same, we will make different choices. I believe it is really that simple.
My amplifiers had to be capable of producing more power than the RMS of my speaker, with little THD, what is the THD above rated power, and Frequency Response for what I'm driving, and how much does it weigh. I give a glance at the input sensitivity, but that was it for me. Again, I only dealt with the known players. I do the same for powered speakers now. I mean, you get out of them, what you put in. I believe that most equipment with the same price point, will give you similar results and because we are not the same, we will make different choices. I believe it is really that simple.
Inviato Fri 22 Jan 16 @ 7:35 pm
Mobile Zombie
Active speakers most commonly use active filters, often DSP based to perform complex filtering not possible by analogue electronics, in front of each amp.
Someone said they use passive crossovers but that's used inside unpowered speaker cabinets.
And please do not say that a class-d amp is a digital thing, because it's not.
There looks like some big misunderstanding of something called "dumping factor" - is that a thing invented by Atomix Phantom? LOL
The only "latency" or phase lag you will see in an amp is caused by slewrate limitation but it's waaaaay to high to cause problems especially for bas reproduction.
An amp will respond many times faster than the transducer it drives.
Someone said they use passive crossovers but that's used inside unpowered speaker cabinets.
And please do not say that a class-d amp is a digital thing, because it's not.
There looks like some big misunderstanding of something called "dumping factor" - is that a thing invented by Atomix Phantom? LOL
The only "latency" or phase lag you will see in an amp is caused by slewrate limitation but it's waaaaay to high to cause problems especially for bas reproduction.
An amp will respond many times faster than the transducer it drives.
Inviato Fri 22 Jan 16 @ 8:22 pm
Tim Bennett
Sorry bigron1, wasn't talking TO you. I gave up on you a long time ago.
Was an amusing thread for a while. Then maddening, I may learn one day.
Was an amusing thread for a while. Then maddening, I may learn one day.
Inviato Fri 22 Jan 16 @ 9:35 pm
VDJ Ron
Bennett this is an excellent thread which can help improve the knowledge of the users on this forum.
I suppose you either know it all, or think it's unimportant.
This thread is worthy of study.
Thanks for adding at least one new concept I was unaware of Phantomdj.
AMAHM is also adding his experience, as is Mr Jackson, and blckjck.
Awesome.
It's now time to reflect on the whole thread, I think there may be much I can learn.
I suppose you either know it all, or think it's unimportant.
This thread is worthy of study.
Thanks for adding at least one new concept I was unaware of Phantomdj.
AMAHM is also adding his experience, as is Mr Jackson, and blckjck.
Awesome.
It's now time to reflect on the whole thread, I think there may be much I can learn.
Inviato Sat 23 Jan 16 @ 2:25 am
the SOUND INSURGENT
Since I honestly don't know what any of this stuff means, hows this look?
Features: Specifications:
High-volume punch and ultra-wide frequency response
Ideal for mains
Two EVS-15K woofers for extended LF
1.5-inch DH-1K titanium HF compression driver
38 Hz -- 20 kHz frequency range
90° x 50° coverage-pattern waveguide
137 dB max SPL
Power handling: 600 W continuous, 2400 W peak
Braced 15mm plywood enclosure
Black textured finish Dual 15-inch two-way full-range loudspeaker
Axial Sensitivity (SPL, 1 W @ 1 m): 96 dB
Case Material: 9-ply, 15mm Plywood, Internally Braced, with Textured Paint
Color : Black
Coverage (Nominal -6 dB): Omnidirectional
Speaker Type: Full-range, mid-high, two-way
Woofer Size: 381 mm (15")
Frequency Response (-3 dB): 62 - 18000 Hz
Frequency Response (-10 dB): 38 - 20000 Hz
Internal Crossover: Yes
Recommended High-Pass Frequency: 35 Hz
Max. SPL/1m (calc): 137 dB
Coverage (Nominal -6 dB) H: 90 °
Coverage (Nominal -6 dB) V: 50 °
System Power Handling (Continuous/Program/Peak): 600//2400 Watts
LF Transducer: (2) EVS-15K, 381mm (15") Woofers
HF Transducer: DH-1K, 39mm (1.5") Titanium Diaphragm Compression Driver
Crossover Frequency: 1.7 k Hz
Nominal Impedance (Passive): 4 Ohm
Minimum Impedance: 3.7 Ohm
Connector Type: Parallel Neutrik® NL4
Grill: 18GA Steel with Black Powdercoat
Height: 1154 mm (45.43")
Width: 432 mm (17.01")
Depth: 501 mm (19.72")
Weight Net : 40.7 kg (89.73 lbs)
Shipping Weight: 52 kg (114.64 lbs)
Brand New QSC GXD4
Professional Power Amplifier
Features: Specifications:
High peak output power with up to 1600.
Power levels matched to the most popular loudspeakers and optimized for maximum real-world headroom into 4Ohms and 8Ohms speaker systems.
Class-D output stage with a universal power supply for high performance and efficiency.
Extensive and powerful loudspeaker processing built in.
Includes High & Low-Pass filters, 4-band PEQ, Limiting, and Delay.
Large LCD display simplifies amplifier setup and indicates amp status.
Inputs: Parallel XLR and 1/4" TRS connectors for compatibility with any source while providing convenient loop-thru capability.
Precision rotary encoders for gain and DSP parameter control.
Outputs: Professional binding post and NL4 connectors (compatible with NL2) provide for mono and bi-amp speaker connections.
Digital Limiting automatically protects the amplifier from damage due to temperature rise or overdrive.
Adjustable speaker protection to match your loudspeaker's power and impedance.
Front panel LEDs indicate signal presence, input overload, and amplifier clipping.
Power Rating 8Ohm dynamic, both channels driven: 600 Watts
Power Rating 4Ohm dynamic, both channels driven: 800 Watts
Power Rating 8Ohm continuous, both channels drive: 400 Watts
Power Rating 4Ohm continuous, both channels driven: 600 Watts
Distortion (typical) 1 kHz at full rated power: < 1% THD
Signal to Noise (A-weighted, 20 Hz -- 20 kHz): 100 dB
Input Sensitivity: 1.2 Vrms, 3.9 Vrms
Voltage Gain (8Ohm): 33.5 dB
Output Circuitry: Class D
Power Requirements: 1/8 power at 4Ohm - 100 Vac: 3.4 Amps
Power Requirements: 1/8 power at 4Ohm- 120 Vac: 2.9 Amps
Power Requirements: 1/8 power at 4Ohm - 230 Vac: 1.6 Amps
Frequency Response (20 Hz -- 20 kHz): +0.7 dB, -0.8 dB
Dynamic Headroom (4Ohm): 1.25 dB
Damping Factor: 100
Input Impedance (Ohm): 20k (balanced), 10k (unbalanced)
Maximum Input Level: +23.5 dBu
Input Connectors (each channel): 3-pin XLR/F / 1/4" TRS, balanced
Output Connectors (each channel): NL4 (Channel 1 - 1+/-, Channel 2 - 2+/-), binding posts
Amplifier and Load Protection: Short circuit, open circuit, thermal, RF protection, Load protected against DC faults
Front Panel Controls and Indicators: 2 x Rotary Encoders, 3 x Operational buttons (HOME, ENTER, EXIT), 2 x Green Signal LEDs, indicate signal presence, 2 x Red A/D Clip LEDs, indicate input over-drive and/or amplifier current clipping, Blue Power LED ring, AC on, 2.12" x 1.0", 256 x 128 pixel LCD
DSP Functions: High Pass Filter, 4th order LR, adjustable Frequency 20 Hz to 4 kHz, Low Pass Filter, 4th order LR, adjustable Frequency 60 Hz to 4 kHz, 4-band PEQ, with variable Frequency, Gain, and Bandwidth, Peak Limiter, with Power, Agressiveness, and Impedance selection, Delay 50 msec max.
Dimensions (HWD): 3.5" (2 RU) x 19" x 10.2" (89 mm x 483 mm x 259 mm)
Weight (Net): 11.3 lb (5.1 kg)
Weight - Shipping: 15.4 lb (7.0 kg)
Agency Approvals: UL, CE, RoHS/WEEE compliant
Carton and Contents: Power cable, and quick start guide
Features: Specifications:
High-volume punch and ultra-wide frequency response
Ideal for mains
Two EVS-15K woofers for extended LF
1.5-inch DH-1K titanium HF compression driver
38 Hz -- 20 kHz frequency range
90° x 50° coverage-pattern waveguide
137 dB max SPL
Power handling: 600 W continuous, 2400 W peak
Braced 15mm plywood enclosure
Black textured finish Dual 15-inch two-way full-range loudspeaker
Axial Sensitivity (SPL, 1 W @ 1 m): 96 dB
Case Material: 9-ply, 15mm Plywood, Internally Braced, with Textured Paint
Color : Black
Coverage (Nominal -6 dB): Omnidirectional
Speaker Type: Full-range, mid-high, two-way
Woofer Size: 381 mm (15")
Frequency Response (-3 dB): 62 - 18000 Hz
Frequency Response (-10 dB): 38 - 20000 Hz
Internal Crossover: Yes
Recommended High-Pass Frequency: 35 Hz
Max. SPL/1m (calc): 137 dB
Coverage (Nominal -6 dB) H: 90 °
Coverage (Nominal -6 dB) V: 50 °
System Power Handling (Continuous/Program/Peak): 600//2400 Watts
LF Transducer: (2) EVS-15K, 381mm (15") Woofers
HF Transducer: DH-1K, 39mm (1.5") Titanium Diaphragm Compression Driver
Crossover Frequency: 1.7 k Hz
Nominal Impedance (Passive): 4 Ohm
Minimum Impedance: 3.7 Ohm
Connector Type: Parallel Neutrik® NL4
Grill: 18GA Steel with Black Powdercoat
Height: 1154 mm (45.43")
Width: 432 mm (17.01")
Depth: 501 mm (19.72")
Weight Net : 40.7 kg (89.73 lbs)
Shipping Weight: 52 kg (114.64 lbs)
Brand New QSC GXD4
Professional Power Amplifier
Features: Specifications:
High peak output power with up to 1600.
Power levels matched to the most popular loudspeakers and optimized for maximum real-world headroom into 4Ohms and 8Ohms speaker systems.
Class-D output stage with a universal power supply for high performance and efficiency.
Extensive and powerful loudspeaker processing built in.
Includes High & Low-Pass filters, 4-band PEQ, Limiting, and Delay.
Large LCD display simplifies amplifier setup and indicates amp status.
Inputs: Parallel XLR and 1/4" TRS connectors for compatibility with any source while providing convenient loop-thru capability.
Precision rotary encoders for gain and DSP parameter control.
Outputs: Professional binding post and NL4 connectors (compatible with NL2) provide for mono and bi-amp speaker connections.
Digital Limiting automatically protects the amplifier from damage due to temperature rise or overdrive.
Adjustable speaker protection to match your loudspeaker's power and impedance.
Front panel LEDs indicate signal presence, input overload, and amplifier clipping.
Power Rating 8Ohm dynamic, both channels driven: 600 Watts
Power Rating 4Ohm dynamic, both channels driven: 800 Watts
Power Rating 8Ohm continuous, both channels drive: 400 Watts
Power Rating 4Ohm continuous, both channels driven: 600 Watts
Distortion (typical) 1 kHz at full rated power: < 1% THD
Signal to Noise (A-weighted, 20 Hz -- 20 kHz): 100 dB
Input Sensitivity: 1.2 Vrms, 3.9 Vrms
Voltage Gain (8Ohm): 33.5 dB
Output Circuitry: Class D
Power Requirements: 1/8 power at 4Ohm - 100 Vac: 3.4 Amps
Power Requirements: 1/8 power at 4Ohm- 120 Vac: 2.9 Amps
Power Requirements: 1/8 power at 4Ohm - 230 Vac: 1.6 Amps
Frequency Response (20 Hz -- 20 kHz): +0.7 dB, -0.8 dB
Dynamic Headroom (4Ohm): 1.25 dB
Damping Factor: 100
Input Impedance (Ohm): 20k (balanced), 10k (unbalanced)
Maximum Input Level: +23.5 dBu
Input Connectors (each channel): 3-pin XLR/F / 1/4" TRS, balanced
Output Connectors (each channel): NL4 (Channel 1 - 1+/-, Channel 2 - 2+/-), binding posts
Amplifier and Load Protection: Short circuit, open circuit, thermal, RF protection, Load protected against DC faults
Front Panel Controls and Indicators: 2 x Rotary Encoders, 3 x Operational buttons (HOME, ENTER, EXIT), 2 x Green Signal LEDs, indicate signal presence, 2 x Red A/D Clip LEDs, indicate input over-drive and/or amplifier current clipping, Blue Power LED ring, AC on, 2.12" x 1.0", 256 x 128 pixel LCD
DSP Functions: High Pass Filter, 4th order LR, adjustable Frequency 20 Hz to 4 kHz, Low Pass Filter, 4th order LR, adjustable Frequency 60 Hz to 4 kHz, 4-band PEQ, with variable Frequency, Gain, and Bandwidth, Peak Limiter, with Power, Agressiveness, and Impedance selection, Delay 50 msec max.
Dimensions (HWD): 3.5" (2 RU) x 19" x 10.2" (89 mm x 483 mm x 259 mm)
Weight (Net): 11.3 lb (5.1 kg)
Weight - Shipping: 15.4 lb (7.0 kg)
Agency Approvals: UL, CE, RoHS/WEEE compliant
Carton and Contents: Power cable, and quick start guide
Inviato Sat 23 Jan 16 @ 2:44 am
VDJ Ron
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electro-Voice-EV-ELX215-Dual-15-Full-Range-2-Way-Loudspeaker-ELX-Speaker-Live-X-/391357200473
God help you if you encounter a flight of stairs LOL.
I knew about Peavey, Crown, Behringer, and Devine class d amps but not the QSC GXD4.
They all have a model approximately equal to this amp.
They all weight little !
They're all powerful (@ 550w rms per channel into 4 ohm).
I never noticed anything to indicate the QSC GXD4 can drive a 2 ohm load (often two speakers or more daisy chained on one channel)?
All the others can with the exception of the Devine.
That could be important.
The equivalent Peavey, Crown, and QSC amps are all about the same price, Behringer are a lot cheaper, and the Bax shop is almost giving the Devine away.
I would go for the Crown XLS 1600 at this price point due to it being able to drive a 2 ohm load, and that I don't like the Peavey blue bling LED's.
God help you if you encounter a flight of stairs LOL.
I knew about Peavey, Crown, Behringer, and Devine class d amps but not the QSC GXD4.
They all have a model approximately equal to this amp.
They all weight little !
They're all powerful (@ 550w rms per channel into 4 ohm).
I never noticed anything to indicate the QSC GXD4 can drive a 2 ohm load (often two speakers or more daisy chained on one channel)?
All the others can with the exception of the Devine.
That could be important.
The equivalent Peavey, Crown, and QSC amps are all about the same price, Behringer are a lot cheaper, and the Bax shop is almost giving the Devine away.
I would go for the Crown XLS 1600 at this price point due to it being able to drive a 2 ohm load, and that I don't like the Peavey blue bling LED's.
Inviato Sat 23 Jan 16 @ 3:41 am
VDJ Ron
Hell
Quote "There really needs to be a standard created for reporting speaker performance to consumers. It’s about as reliable as advertised gas mileage in cars. Clear as mud."
Another fine mess.
Sorry chaps but I think acoustic engineers are on par with economists, and bankers, OK well maybe not that bad, but getting there.
See link http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/watts_vs._max_spl_what_do_these_numbers_really_mean/
Hm
Qoute"Sensitivity is basically a rating of the speaker's efficiency. It's a way of saying 'if you put X watts of electricity into this speaker, you'll get Y dB/SPL out.
Max SPL will supposedly tell you how loud the speaker goes in decibels SPL (the standard measurement of sound level).
Both can be fairly meaningless, especially the latter. Maximum SPL ratings are often calculated, and don't take into account other issues such as thermal compression, how the speaker actually sounds when you turn it up etc. Many speakers give a rating of 130dB/SPL or more for their maximum output, but you'll find when you turn them up they sound unusably poor."
Quote "There really needs to be a standard created for reporting speaker performance to consumers. It’s about as reliable as advertised gas mileage in cars. Clear as mud."
Another fine mess.
Sorry chaps but I think acoustic engineers are on par with economists, and bankers, OK well maybe not that bad, but getting there.
See link http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/watts_vs._max_spl_what_do_these_numbers_really_mean/
Hm
Qoute"Sensitivity is basically a rating of the speaker's efficiency. It's a way of saying 'if you put X watts of electricity into this speaker, you'll get Y dB/SPL out.
Max SPL will supposedly tell you how loud the speaker goes in decibels SPL (the standard measurement of sound level).
Both can be fairly meaningless, especially the latter. Maximum SPL ratings are often calculated, and don't take into account other issues such as thermal compression, how the speaker actually sounds when you turn it up etc. Many speakers give a rating of 130dB/SPL or more for their maximum output, but you'll find when you turn them up they sound unusably poor."
Inviato Sat 23 Jan 16 @ 4:06 am
VDJ Ron
AMAHM, and myself have both outlined simple methods for choosing speakers.
Both of us almost qualify for pensions, and have antique status.
The acoustic engineers are in danger of disappearing up their own backsides.
Keep it simple, just like AMAHM suggests.
"loud, and clean"
Acoustic engineers perhaps should not shoulder the full blame for the lack of clarity related to amplifier, and speaker power output. I don't doubt that shysters have been busy misleading the public as to the capabilities of their products.
It's unlikely these shysters are proper engineers.
Both of us almost qualify for pensions, and have antique status.
The acoustic engineers are in danger of disappearing up their own backsides.
Keep it simple, just like AMAHM suggests.
"loud, and clean"
Acoustic engineers perhaps should not shoulder the full blame for the lack of clarity related to amplifier, and speaker power output. I don't doubt that shysters have been busy misleading the public as to the capabilities of their products.
It's unlikely these shysters are proper engineers.
Inviato Sat 23 Jan 16 @ 1:01 pm
Tim Bennett
bigron1 wrote :
Bennett this is an excellent thread which can help improve the knowledge of the users on this forum.
I suppose you either know it all, or think it's unimportant.
This thread is worthy of study.
I suppose you either know it all, or think it's unimportant.
This thread is worthy of study.
I agree 100%, this is a fantastic thread, full of useful information for all levels of users. Never said it wasn't. Not a know it all by any means, but yes, I am aware of most of what has been shared in this thread.
Inviato Sat 23 Jan 16 @ 5:28 pm
A Man and His Music
Too much information, is just as detrimental as too little information. It's never ending, and keeps you from making a decision, because there is always more. When comparing speakers, go 5 to 6 deep with the specs, because the rest will have you looking to Wikipedia for explanations, which will take up more time, because the explanation, will need an .......... explanation. I could see if you are going for a sound engineers degree, but is all this info necessary to do little Billie's Bar Mitzvah?
Inviato Sun 24 Jan 16 @ 1:46 am
the SOUND INSURGENT
Ok so what's a good small system for around 1500/2000 grand??
I'm curious because I might get into doing more mobile work as the wife is going back to school fulltime so yeah being the man of the house its either sell crack (did that before and I really didn't like the 10 years sentence) or try my hand at some mobile work or get a part job which I'm not opposed to.
So since yall seem to know so much about this stuff I'd like to know whats good for around 1500/2000 if anything, lmao!!
I'm curious because I might get into doing more mobile work as the wife is going back to school fulltime so yeah being the man of the house its either sell crack (did that before and I really didn't like the 10 years sentence) or try my hand at some mobile work or get a part job which I'm not opposed to.
So since yall seem to know so much about this stuff I'd like to know whats good for around 1500/2000 if anything, lmao!!
Inviato Sun 24 Jan 16 @ 1:51 am
A Man and His Music
I have seen the way you put things together, so I'm going to stick to the good stuff. I typically don't like the combo units, (amps built into the subs and powering the tops) but if I was in the market this is what I would get. They are a little above your budget, but I don't think that has stopped you before. They do have the Evox 8, which will do the job, and fall within your budget, but I like to go big. I like most of the RCF line, and QSC.
Inviato Sun 24 Jan 16 @ 2:15 am
VDJ Ron
It's difficult to know what's best.
I've used a class D amplifier only once, but it has possibly changed my perception of amplification.
Amplifiers are not going to be the big heavy things that they have been in the past.
It appears they are now almost on the same scale as the base unit of a radio microphone.
As yet we have insufficient long term feedback from the users to determine there reliability.
You won't like my recommendation..but the Peavey 1012's are fantastic little speakers.
We have 4 sets, 2 at 4 ohm, and two at 8 ohm.
By themselves one set will do a large venue, however in a shoe box you can put one on a stand and the other on the floor at its foot. That range of usage is amazing.
Care needs to be taken over the amplifier, I believe class D, and a more a powerful amplifier than my Inuke 3000 (8 ohm speakers). I'd be thinking in terms of the Crown XLS 2000 or it's Peavey equivalent. They have built in crossovers, and can drive 2 ohm loads so you can add extra subswoofers to your set up.
When your kicking ass seriously the Peavey tops, and perhaps up to 4 subwoofers may suit your needs.
Note: I've never used 4 subwoofers, just 2.
I'd be thinking like this
Tops - small to medium venue - 1000w rms.
Tops plus 2 subwoofers - medium to large venue - 2000w rms
Tops plus 4 subwoofers - kick ass venue - 3000w rms
I might be losing it with the later, but you can just borrow, or hire a pair of subwoofers to see if it works.
Hm I'm not sure the power supply could handle that, it may need bi-amping.
Anyway the idea is to tailor the pa to the venue, and event.
Read the reviews for every item you buy.
The 1012's are more or less 5 star all over the internet, and have been for a long time.
Peavey after service has fell off a cliff in the UK.
I believe it's still good in the USA.
I've used a class D amplifier only once, but it has possibly changed my perception of amplification.
Amplifiers are not going to be the big heavy things that they have been in the past.
It appears they are now almost on the same scale as the base unit of a radio microphone.
As yet we have insufficient long term feedback from the users to determine there reliability.
You won't like my recommendation..but the Peavey 1012's are fantastic little speakers.
We have 4 sets, 2 at 4 ohm, and two at 8 ohm.
By themselves one set will do a large venue, however in a shoe box you can put one on a stand and the other on the floor at its foot. That range of usage is amazing.
Care needs to be taken over the amplifier, I believe class D, and a more a powerful amplifier than my Inuke 3000 (8 ohm speakers). I'd be thinking in terms of the Crown XLS 2000 or it's Peavey equivalent. They have built in crossovers, and can drive 2 ohm loads so you can add extra subswoofers to your set up.
When your kicking ass seriously the Peavey tops, and perhaps up to 4 subwoofers may suit your needs.
Note: I've never used 4 subwoofers, just 2.
I'd be thinking like this
Tops - small to medium venue - 1000w rms.
Tops plus 2 subwoofers - medium to large venue - 2000w rms
Tops plus 4 subwoofers - kick ass venue - 3000w rms
I might be losing it with the later, but you can just borrow, or hire a pair of subwoofers to see if it works.
Hm I'm not sure the power supply could handle that, it may need bi-amping.
Anyway the idea is to tailor the pa to the venue, and event.
Read the reviews for every item you buy.
The 1012's are more or less 5 star all over the internet, and have been for a long time.
Peavey after service has fell off a cliff in the UK.
I believe it's still good in the USA.
Inviato Sun 24 Jan 16 @ 1:52 pm
groovindj
beatbreaker1 wrote :
Ok so what's a good small system for around 1500/2000 grand??
How about a pair of QSC KW122 (should be around $2000)?
Inviato Sun 24 Jan 16 @ 2:19 pm
VDJ Ron
Nice speakers.
I don't like active speakers because the provision of a signal cable, and power supply to each can be difficult.
This extends setup time.
I like to be able to put my speakers almost anywhere.
To this end I have one very long speaker cable.
I have now stored my pv1500 heavy class A/B amplifier away.
The Inuke 3000 has already been successful in a large venue.
I feel as if I should have bought a Crown, or Peavey amplifier however Behringer is doing well.
It's an image thing.
I don't like active speakers because the provision of a signal cable, and power supply to each can be difficult.
This extends setup time.
I like to be able to put my speakers almost anywhere.
To this end I have one very long speaker cable.
I have now stored my pv1500 heavy class A/B amplifier away.
The Inuke 3000 has already been successful in a large venue.
I feel as if I should have bought a Crown, or Peavey amplifier however Behringer is doing well.
It's an image thing.
Inviato Sun 24 Jan 16 @ 2:40 pm
groovindj
bigron1 wrote :
provision of a signal cable, and power supply to each can be difficult.
Not in my experience. I've been using powered speakers now for......must be ten years or more, and have never found myself unable to run a cable to them.
Running mains and line to them is no different to running mains, line, speaker level or DMX to any other DJ kit.
Inviato Sun 24 Jan 16 @ 2:48 pm
VDJ Ron
With a need for wide speaker spread, and a shortage of local power points I'd easily beat your set up time.
Also I don't like the idea of running signal cables and power cables alongside each other.
In fact I don't like power cables full stop.
They're always a potential threat.
Also I don't like the idea of running signal cables and power cables alongside each other.
In fact I don't like power cables full stop.
They're always a potential threat.
Inviato Sun 24 Jan 16 @ 3:17 pm
groovindj
bigron1 wrote :
I'd easily beat your set up time.
It's not a race!
Who says the power and signal cables have to run alongside each other? Even if/when I do run them that way, the signal cables are shielded and balanced.
As for the "need" for wide speaker spread, the farthest I'd set my speakers is maybe 15ft apart. Usually they're 8-10ft. Few (If any) gigs have required different.
Inviato Sun 24 Jan 16 @ 4:10 pm
