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Virtual DJ 8 BPM...
Topic: Virtual DJ 8 BPM issue - Page: 4
I understand that this is not the case for many tracks and varies across genres but for these specific tracks and most of the tracks in my library, it is. I understand that it is especially not the case for music played by humans. I understand that it is uncommon for older digitally produced music. But for these tracks, it is the case.
Again I'm not really interested in what "can" happen or what "real DJ's" can or "should" do. I am interested in the fact that in the vast majority of cases I encounter the BPM analyzer is not working at all. This means that the automix feature, which I use daily, does not work and it means that novice DJs interested in using VDJ may decide to use a different piece of software.
Inviato Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 2:41 pm
Inviato Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 2:48 pm
Because from here it feels like I'm trying to have a discussion about the BPM analyser and have gone to some trouble to provide a variety of mp3 and jpg examples, and people are ignoring it so that they can remind me that they are better DJs than I am and that they know more about music, despite me repeatedly having humbly agreed that I am a s**t DJ and I have a limited knowledge of music.
Inviato Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 2:53 pm
Inviato Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 4:09 pm
For automix the automix poi are used (see show all in the poi editor). Which ones depends on the selected automix mode.
The detection in vdj ranges from 50 to 200, but if a bpm is already available, the range (50 to 100 or 100 to 200) is kept from the previously known bpm.
Inviato Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 4:19 pm
Inviato Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 4:51 pm
Inviato Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 5:08 pm
There are lots of apps for example that run on smartphones and tablets, which take your track library and "mix" it together for you. I've got a few myself, just for fun. They've all got shortcomings.
The best one I've heard was developed by a guy (Ian Chamings) who was on Dragon's Den a few years ago. He got backing from two of the dragons / investors. Initially his idea was to sell custom mix CDs to the public, but it's ended up as a service for fitness pros who want mixes for workouts. His algorithm was pretty smart. Not available in DJ software though. :-)
Google his name for details
Inviato Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 6:45 pm
If the "first beat" is being detected as silence exactly 1 beat before the first beat, that seems fixable to me. Instead of pretending it's not a problem and telling me, again, for the nth time in this thread, that DJs make software obsolete, I am trying to provide constructive feedback and examples so that the development team can understand what the problem is, who it affects and whether they can or should fix it. The answer could be that they don't want to, or that they can't and that's fine. As I have said before, I think this is a great piece of software and I bought it on the understanding that this feature wasn't supposed to work.
Apologies if you just mean to add that information as a point of interest, but it comes across as you trying to correct me and tell me that this feature should not be improved.
Inviato Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 6:58 pm
If it was an easy thing to implement then all the software out there would do an amazing job blending tracks together, but it doesn't.
Inviato Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 7:50 pm
The beat detection is pretty good - but in my experience the phase for some reason is more often than not wrong (but not always).
Some are tricky obviously where you have a song that slips in some funky bridge ,verse, chorus or break lengths. There are good reasons why it is not perfect - but maybe the question should be - is there a way to make it more correct more often?
Inviato Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 9:16 pm
BPM 60 - VDJ BPM = 120: http://www.tellyvisuals.com/BPM_60.zip
BPM 69 - VDJ BPM = 138: http://www.tellyvisuals.com/BPM_69.zip
BPM 168 - VDJ BPM = 84: http://www.tellyvisuals.com/BPM_168.zip
Inviato Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 11:03 pm
Inviato Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 11:09 pm
I think they are trying to address your issue the best they can. At any rate most people can tap their feet and rub their belly at the same time :) meaning it is easy for most to talk about different parts of an issue without distraction.
Inviato Thu 19 Jan 17 @ 3:55 am
Listening through on automix reveals a good 50% of the tracks with completely incorrect grid detections.
Mat Zo - MAD (mp3) is a good example of the incorrect BPM detection with 0.008% error actually being quite audibly out of sync by the end of the track.
If I Move To Mars (Urbandawn Remix) (mp3) is a good example of one where the first beat is incorrectly detected about 10% of the way through a bar with a really obvious first beat shortly before it and no beat to speak of at the point it detects.
Inviato Mon 06 Feb 17 @ 6:50 pm
It's supposed to be around 125 BPM (and Mixed In Key gets it right) but VDJ's first attempt tells me it's 83.1 BPM.
If I switch to the new experimental analyzer it says 62.3 (which I guess is half the correct tempo at least).
Another example - Cosmic Lust by Mass Production. Again VDJ says it's 84.2 when it's actually around 128.
Anton Powers & Pixie Lott - Baby (VDJ says 81.3 and it should be 122).
Now this is strange......the above results were from my laptop (Windows 10 64 bit). On my older desktop PC (Windows 7 32 bit), VDJ gets them all right first time. Why should that happen?
Inviato Mon 01 May 17 @ 2:50 pm
That's a good point Locodog.
I would not have known what you were talking about except that I've been looking at the Traktor step sequencer which has numerical values of swing varying from 1-80. The idea being to randomize the music making it sound more human, and less electronic. This of course makes it more difficult to mix.
Inviato Mon 01 May 17 @ 4:02 pm
bigron1 wrote :
This of course makes it more difficult to mix.
No no - swing won't change the overall BPM of the track. It's not about making the whole BPM vary.
Given a 120 BPM beat with every single sound exactly "on grid", swing will just very slightly shift some of the elements a tiny amount before or after the "grid".
Usually not the kick drum. Swing will usually apply to the snare hits, hi hat and other percussion elements (bongos etc).
Inviato Mon 01 May 17 @ 4:53 pm
Using the step sequencer I can construct a 4 beat bar using a variety of samples such as kick drums, hi hats, sticks, and so on.. placing these samples originally on the beat or even on the 1/4 beat but then using swing I can move each individual sample off beat There seems to be room for quite significant off beat displacement. Is it not the case that songs might be constructed in the same way?
Snare hits are loud and significant hm..
Interesting Usually not the kick drum.
I've been moving the kick drum around lol.
My step sequencer usage is a little chaotic at the moment ..more lol.
Inviato Mon 01 May 17 @ 5:09 pm
One wouldn't normally do this with a track that's already played by humans (i.e. pre drum machine). Apply it to a really stiff robotic track though and it can change the feel - but don't overdo it. The groove profiles used by DAWs are usually very subtle.
Probably the most famous drum pattern in the world - Funky Drummer, played by Clyde Stubblefield - is so popular because it has feel/groove/swing. It's mentioned in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3xSXc1vy5I
In this video you can hear the "flam" sound created by the two drummers being slightly out of sync with each other (they're human). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE65eaI9JtU
Inviato Mon 01 May 17 @ 5:30 pm