PhantomDeejay
PS: All Pioneer controllers that are made for RekordboxDJ (DDJ-R series) have a -9db headroom design for that very reason. To avoid having to use (or kick in) a limiter!!!
Inviato Wed 23 Jan 19 @ 11:17 am
blckjck
PhantomDeejay wrote :
PS: All Pioneer controllers that are made for RekordboxDJ (DDJ-R series) have a -9db headroom design for that very reason. To avoid having to use (or kick in) a limiter!!!
I was just going to add this in, lol.
The DAW software and live sound digital hardware I work with have the same limitations as any other audio software. I believe VDJ uses dBFS (decibel full scale) If it goes above 0dB, it clips. The analog world is different. I usually run my gain structure there so signals come in averaging at 0bB. With peaks going up +6dB - +10db. The analog gear has the headroom before clipping at that range. For my digital gear, I record live sound at -10dB, I mix at -6dB, and compressed commercial audio is at -3dB. With those settings I do not hit the brick-wall limiter. I then make up the -Xdb with my gain input control on the next stage of hardware, be it an amp, another mixer, etc.
In my testing, the limiter is working properly. Setting ZerodB to -6 works well for me. I usually only mix two deck with samples. I could see, possibly, mixing 10 decks and hitting the limiter again.
djdutschi wrote :
A limiter can be set from which volume he should use ... And if clipping arises, which also depends on the hardware ...
I turn up the bass or the level only a small minimal piece, or I use an effect (example, an effect for the master, equalizer ect.), And already the Limiter starts to work, you can see this on the red LED ..
I turn up the bass or the level only a small minimal piece, or I use an effect (example, an effect for the master, equalizer ect.), And already the Limiter starts to work, you can see this on the red LED ..
I disagree with this statement. The limiter is to stop the audio signal from going past a certain point. Your volume faders are to set the volume to be used. Some limiters are not true brick-wall limiters. They are heavy compressors. They will allow the signal to creep past 0dB at a highly reduced rate.
Clipping does depend on the hardware. The digital processors in computers/controllers are the start of this hardware in this case. They clip out at 0db. VDJ's limiter does not let you go past 0dB. It also allows you to set the headroom you need before clipping with the ZerodB setting. As stated above, other software and gear automatically add in this headroom.
I assume you are using something like mp3gain to "normalize" the audio in all of your tracks. I get that from your 95db. It seems common that a lot of people set their songs to 95 dB. This is a different than the dBFS refence that VDJ uses. mp3gain, for example, uses dB SPL. That scale uses 103 dB as it's max sound level. So, with a setting of 95 dB, you have 8dB of headroom in your tracks. If you mix two songs at 95dB together, the sum of that is 98.01dB. That leaves less then 2db of headroom. Most commercial tracks are extremely compressed now. So, if they have a dynamic range of 8dB, and your track runs an average of 95dB, you might be seeing peaks at +99db. Mix two tracks at that level, and their peaks are at 102dB. At 99dB, leaving you only 4dB of headroom, any EQ add, effect, etc. is going to get you to that limit of 103dB.
The same headroom applies to VDJ. The scale is just different. VDJ uses 0dB as the max. Everything is goes negative from there. To give yourself 6dB of headroom, set ZerodB to -6. To get 14dB, set ZerodB to -14db.
I hope this helps,
Max
Inviato Wed 23 Jan 19 @ 2:50 pm
groovindj
PhantomDeejay wrote :
If you use a VST compressor/limiter and you set it up correctly, VirtualDJ's own limiter should not engage!
If you use a VST compressor/limiter and you set it up correctly, VirtualDJ's own limiter should not engage!
Agreed - but that doesn't change the fact that the "thing" strapped permanently across VDJ's output sounds awful if/when engaged (which could well discourange potential customers), and it would be possible for Atomix to put something in place which is much kinder to the ears and isn't going to put people off.
I don't push VDJ that hard, and I have VSTs installed that I can use too - but I think it would be in Atomix's favour to improve the sound for the above reasons.
Inviato Wed 23 Jan 19 @ 6:23 pm
Adion
Maybe just me then, but I don't think it sounds bad at all, unless you are hitting it quite hard.
Inviato Wed 23 Jan 19 @ 6:30 pm
blckjck
Personally, I run a brick-wall limiter at the end of my signal chain. Before that is a compressing limiter. I don't mind the limiter in VDJ. If I have done a poor job with my gain staging, I would rather it sound bad instead of sending DC clipped voltage to the next stage of my gear.
Adding a compressing limiter plugin ahead of the internal brick-wall helps it sound better. But, you should never need it with compressed recorded music properly gain staged.
Adding a compressing limiter plugin ahead of the internal brick-wall helps it sound better. But, you should never need it with compressed recorded music properly gain staged.
Inviato Wed 23 Jan 19 @ 7:48 pm
olivier REMUX
Hi,
I've always found the sound artificial and compressed in Rekordbox.
(In Performance mode, not in export mode)
In Rekordbox Limiter behave like a Compressor (Soft limiter)
Rekordbox 5.4.2 limiter behaviour (more a soft/compressor than a hard limiter) :
Here my measurements :
(Autogain : off / files analysed /Headroom : 0dB with several audiocard or controller)
Wav Input pure sine .wav at 1000 Hz -> Rekordbox asio Output for Soundcard or controller :
0 dBFS -> -0,1 dBFS
-1 dBFS -> 0 dBFS (Compressed audio +1)
-2 dBFS -> 0 dBFS (Compressed audio +2)
-3 dBFS -> 0 dBFS (Compressed audio +3)
-4 dBFS -> 0 dBFS (Compressed audio +4)
-5 dBFS -> 0 dBFS (Compressed audio +5)
-6 dBFS -> -0.7 dBFS (Compressed audio +5.3)
-7 dBFS -> -1.7 dBFS (Compressed audio +5.3)
-8 dBFS -> -2.7 dBFS (Compressed audio +5.3)
-9 dBFS -> -3.7 dBFS (Compressed audio +5.3)
-10 dBFS -> -4.7 dBFS (Compressed audio +5.3)
...
-20 dBFS -> -14.7 dBFS (Compressed audio +5.3)
-30 dBFS -> -24.7 dBFS (Compressed audio +5.3)
...
-60 dBFS -> -54.7 dBFS (Compressed audio +5.3)
Checked with .wav pour 1000 Hs sine with several dBFS values.
(Not with record function, with a software with a virtual ASIO drivers than can check the asio output of Rekordbox to the soundcard)
And the sound is not compressed in export mode, it's only in Performance mode.
I've always found the sound artificial and compressed in Rekordbox.
(In Performance mode, not in export mode)
In Rekordbox Limiter behave like a Compressor (Soft limiter)
Rekordbox 5.4.2 limiter behaviour (more a soft/compressor than a hard limiter) :
Here my measurements :
(Autogain : off / files analysed /Headroom : 0dB with several audiocard or controller)
Wav Input pure sine .wav at 1000 Hz -> Rekordbox asio Output for Soundcard or controller :
0 dBFS -> -0,1 dBFS
-1 dBFS -> 0 dBFS (Compressed audio +1)
-2 dBFS -> 0 dBFS (Compressed audio +2)
-3 dBFS -> 0 dBFS (Compressed audio +3)
-4 dBFS -> 0 dBFS (Compressed audio +4)
-5 dBFS -> 0 dBFS (Compressed audio +5)
-6 dBFS -> -0.7 dBFS (Compressed audio +5.3)
-7 dBFS -> -1.7 dBFS (Compressed audio +5.3)
-8 dBFS -> -2.7 dBFS (Compressed audio +5.3)
-9 dBFS -> -3.7 dBFS (Compressed audio +5.3)
-10 dBFS -> -4.7 dBFS (Compressed audio +5.3)
...
-20 dBFS -> -14.7 dBFS (Compressed audio +5.3)
-30 dBFS -> -24.7 dBFS (Compressed audio +5.3)
...
-60 dBFS -> -54.7 dBFS (Compressed audio +5.3)
Checked with .wav pour 1000 Hs sine with several dBFS values.
(Not with record function, with a software with a virtual ASIO drivers than can check the asio output of Rekordbox to the soundcard)
And the sound is not compressed in export mode, it's only in Performance mode.
Inviato Fri 25 Jan 19 @ 6:14 pm
bagpuss
It's worth noting that If you mix properly, your levels should only increase very slightly, it's the master tempo algorithm that impacts levels quite harshly, so watch out for that.
Inviato Sat 26 Jan 19 @ 5:38 am
olivier REMUX
Inviato Wed 06 Feb 19 @ 2:20 pm