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Forum: General Discussion

Topic: Pioneer DDJ-1000 SRT Mapper - Page: 2

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djdad wrote :
andy-chiles wrote :
You also can ask anything else about every device. We have a lot of devices in the store ..

You have no idea how many we have here too ! Just think how many controllers have been released since the days of Hercules MK1 (have that too) :P



Oh I can imagine ^^
But who knows... Maybe one day ^^
 

Inviato Sun 08 Sep 19 @ 11:22 pm
tego pioneer ddj 1000 str but I would like it to work with virtual dj when they will have the mapper
 

Inviato Wed 11 Sep 19 @ 11:21 pm
I don't like serato, someone wants to change with the virtual
 

Inviato Wed 11 Sep 19 @ 11:44 pm
DDJ-1000SRT native support will come very soon.
 

Inviato Thu 12 Sep 19 @ 6:45 am
PhantomDeejay wrote :
DDJ-1000SRT native support will come very soon.


EXCELLENT


 

Inviato Fri 13 Sep 19 @ 4:19 pm
djdadPRO InfinityDevelopment ManagerMember since 2005
FYI, Pioneer DDJ-1000SRT is natively supported in new VDJ 2020
 

Inviato Mon 23 Sep 19 @ 2:51 pm
djdad wrote :
FYI, Pioneer DDJ-1000SRT is natively supported in new VDJ 2020


I saw that already... Was very excited to try it...
But I have some questions depending the device and its abilities...

- Is it possible to send the BPM to the FX section (via the firmware as it in the S9)

- If the device gets disconnected, the driver doesn't get recognized after plugging it back in again... so vdj needs to get restarted... can this get fixed?

- I needed serato to change the crossfader curve...
Is there a way to do it in vdj?
(I'm thinking of a pad_page like the "DDJ1K Settings", which I generally missed with the SRT)
 

Inviato Mon 23 Sep 19 @ 4:31 pm
1) No. The unit's firmware does not support such functionality. ALL BPM's are calculated in real time by the device firmware (so yes, expect it be wrong occasionally)

2) Will investigate further

3) AFAIK crossfader curve cannot be adjusted through MIDI, only by entering utilities mode. However we will check again to see if there's any hidden message.

Finally:
Serato series controllers from Pioneer generally don't use MIDI messages to change device options. In order to do so you have to access the device's utilities mode. That's why a DDJ-1KSRT settings pad page does not exist.
On the other hand, all Rekordbox series controllers offer a variety of options that are controllable through MIDI messages (and those devices lack "utility mode")
 

Inviato Mon 23 Sep 19 @ 7:09 pm
DJDNACTPRO InfinityMember since 2019
DJay 2Legit wrote :
Why would somebody buy a 1000SRT to use with VDJ when they can get the original 1000 that already works perfectly with VDJ? Just curious.


I bought the 1000 srt and I use VDJ. When i do gigs i use Serato.. I have my own online radio station and Serato doesn't broadcast so i use VDJ
 

Inviato Tue 24 Sep 19 @ 12:55 am
PhantomDeejay wrote :
1) No. The unit's firmware does not support such functionality. ALL BPM's are calculated in real time by the device firmware (so yes, expect it be wrong occasionally)

2) Will investigate further

3) AFAIK crossfader curve cannot be adjusted through MIDI, only by entering utilities mode. However we will check again to see if there's any hidden message.

Finally:
Serato series controllers from Pioneer generally don't use MIDI messages to change device options. In order to do so you have to access the device's utilities mode. That's why a DDJ-1KSRT settings pad page does not exist.
On the other hand, all Rekordbox series controllers offer a variety of options that are controllable through MIDI messages (and those devices lack "utility mode")


Thank you for your answer!
It helped a lot, as usual... :)

I had a closer look at the utility mode of the device.
Allthough it is full of mixer-settings, there are only two options regarding the crossfader actually.
One is the crossfader-start, and the second is: CROSS FADER CUT LAG ("CR FDR CUT LAG" on the small Display).
It does the same as the Crossfader Cut Lag option in the S9 driver/software/interface-thing.
So it just defines how large the cut lag of the crossfader is...
In steps from 0 to 52 (each step for a tenth millimeter)...
So basically 0 to 5.2 millimeters from each end of the crossfader.
But this UTILITY SETTING does NOT change the CROSSFADER CURVE, so serato is still needed to change it.
Therefore I think there should be some hidden midi message that gets submitted somewhere to change the curve.
Hope you'll find something that enables the customization :)
 

Inviato Tue 24 Sep 19 @ 3:12 am
I found out some interesting facts which I want to share with you:

I recognized small crackle (or glitching) sounds appearing when I scratched on the DDJ-1000SRT...
First I thought they were irregular timed, but after a while I discovered that they came periodically...
I did what I always do in such cases: I increased the buffersize in the ASIO-Pannel.
But the crackles went louder... I increased a little more and they went even louder.
So I thought they should get quieter if I decrease the size of the buffer.
What I discovered was that the device literally "wants" a buffersize of 64 or 128 to sound correctly.
This is strange somehow, but I am happy with such low latencies (64=1ms or 128=2ms on my system)

The second thing depends the driver-recognation after pluging the device out and back in:
If the reconnection happens fast enough the driver just jumps back in and plays normal...
But if the device is plugged out for a couple of seconds the driver doesn't get recognized after pluging it back in.
So in most cases you don't have to worry about someone hitting your cable and the device getting
disconnected for a short time because of a loose contact.
You "only" have to worry about longer disconnections.
I tested it on Windows 7. Maybe Mac or Windows 10 behave different.

The only thing that remains to be discovered is if there is a way to change the crossfader curve without using serato.
 

Inviato Tue 24 Sep 19 @ 11:40 pm
djdad wrote :
FYI, Pioneer DDJ-1000SRT is natively supported in new VDJ 2020



Nice i will hook mine up today...
 

Inviato Thu 26 Sep 19 @ 7:53 pm
I found another interesting behavior regarding the crossfader curve.

Till this day everything I tested on the SRT was on the unit which wh have got in our dj store.
I sold my standard DDJ-1000 today and bought the SRT.
I expected the crossfader curve to be set to slow as it was on the first unit. (On which I had to use serato to change the curve to a hard cut.)
But as I connected my device the curve was exactly like the one I set on the first unit.
Then I tried to opposite way and changed the curve to slow, and connected the unit from our shop, and the curve stayed like that.

So I'm guessing that the controls that should be in the driver-pannel are just not visible, and serato changes the settings inside the driver, instead of changing it directly on the unit.
On this way the driver "overwrites" the settings on the unit.
So the hidden message which was discussed on some posts above should be found somewhere between serato and the driver software/pannel.
 

Inviato Thu 26 Sep 19 @ 8:18 pm
Yes, that's typical behavior for Serato and Pioneer units. (Drivers doing the job)
Anyway, we're still investigating this. Will let you know if we come up with something...
 

Inviato Thu 26 Sep 19 @ 8:52 pm
PhantomDeejay wrote :
Yes, that's typical behavior for Serato and Pioneer units. (Drivers doing the job)
Anyway, we're still investigating this. Will let you know if we come up with something...


Oh ok, didn't knew that... The only controller I had before was the SZ... That has hardware-knobs for everything :)

So its great that you know about that!
Hopefully there is something :)

P.s.:
You may also check the latency-settings and the issue I posted above (with the crackling sound).
Maybe you find a way to increase the latency without disturbing the sound...
Because as you know such a low latency can be dangerous in matters of stability.
 

Inviato Thu 26 Sep 19 @ 9:42 pm
1) We were able to find a way to control Crossfader Curve from within VirtualDJ (and in fact use the crossfaderCurve setting to adjust it).
This will come in the following software update. However please note that the available curves in Pioneer hardware are slightly different than those in VirtualDJ.
Still, besides the named curves, you will be able to use any number from 0.0 (slow) to 1.0 (fast) to control the curve in the manner you did with Serato.

2) We don't have any issues with latency and crackling noise in our test systems. Can you please test on more than one system if the issue persists ?
Also since DDJ-1000SRT uses a non grounded external PSU I would double and triple check that the issue does not derive from something else interfering in the power lines.
Of course we will keep testing the device, but since you are willing to help and you can reproduce the issue perhaps you can help us with that.

Thank you!
 

Inviato Sun 29 Sep 19 @ 12:04 pm
PhantomDeejay wrote :
1) We were able to find a way to control Crossfader Curve from within VirtualDJ (and in fact use the crossfaderCurve setting to adjust it). This will come in the following software update.

Oh great!!!!
You guys are awesome!
I think the slight differences are the smallest problem (at least for me). I personally just don't want to have serato installed only for one task in an eventual case in which the cf-curve gets changed after a firmware or driver-update and I have to change it back. Most time I have it on 100%. But apart from me: With the ability to change it inside VDJ the users can adjust it during djing, and thats the greatest thing which could have happen in this whole crossfader-case. Great work!


PhantomDeejay wrote :
2) We don't have any issues with latency and crackling noise in our test systems. Can you please test on more than one system if the issue persists ?
Also since DDJ-1000SRT uses a non grounded external PSU I would double and triple check that the issue does not derive from something else interfering in the power lines.
Of course we will keep testing the device, but since you are willing to help and you can reproduce the issue perhaps you can help us with that.

I also investigated it further and tested it on the Mac- (HighSierra) and also on the Bootcamp-Windows-7-System of my own MacBook 2011.
Furthermore I also tested it on my desktop PC (Win10), also on my newer Macbook from 2018 (Mojave) and on the Macbook which we use in our shop. Every setting was tested in serato and VDJ. Setting 'sampleRate' was set to auto. Tried different scratchFilterQualities.
I also tested two different SRT-Units and interchanged the PSUs of this two SRTs and one standard DDJ-1000.

Every single constellation had the same interesting result:
From 64 samples on it only could be doubled up to 1024 samples.
Meaning: 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024 were no problem.
Everything in between caused this *glitchting / crackling sound. (192, 320, 384, 448, 576 and so on.)
*The smaller the buffer-size the shorter the glitches, which got them sound like crackling.
The larger the buffer-size the longer they became, and so they got "glitchier".


The only way I could here this noises was during scratching. There was no problem when the decks played normal.
In fast scratches there were only some crackles which disturbed the sound a little bit, but due to the crossfader cuts and all the back and forth movements they only sounded like random crackles (which may also belong to the scratch sound for somebody who doesn't know it).
But in slower scratches with longer wheel movements this crackles got rhythmic... And it didn't matter how fast I moved the jogwheel, it was only important to move it over a long tone to here that they are periodically. I can provide a video of it if it helps somehow, but I also don't see an important need for a solution anymore, after I discovered this "doubling-rule". Maybe the driver needs a special tact to communicate with the system or something like that. But I don't feel a big difference between 128 or 256 samples (except the stability), and so I think the most users can live with this behaviour.
Also the driver is set to 256 samples after installation, so a lot of people wouldn't even recognize it.
It's clearly up to you to investigate this if you assume a bigger issue behind that and I also can and will help you if you need me to, but for my personal opinion it is ok like this, I can live with it. :)
 

Inviato Mon 30 Sep 19 @ 2:21 am
Ok, thank you for your input. We will test further.

PS: TBH I think I only tested half values... :P (512/256/128/64/32) and maybe that's why I didn't notice any issue.
Old habits I guess* ;)

*->Several drivers can't handle odd buffer values properly. That's why we are used testing the values mentioned above, and we usually recommend to our users to use one of those in order to be safe. If that's the case here, there's nothing we can do on our side. If you try other devices you'll find a lot more that their drivers behave this way, meaning that they have various artifacts on odd values and work perfect in values mentioned above. Still you'll find others that work perfect no matter the buffer size, thus excluding VirtualDJ as being the cause of the glitches.
 

Inviato Mon 30 Sep 19 @ 6:56 am
PhantomDeejay wrote :
Ok, thank you for your input. We will test further.

PS: TBH I think I only tested half values... :P (512/256/128/64/32) and maybe that's why I didn't notice any issue.
Old habits I guess* ;)

*->Several drivers can't handle odd buffer values properly. That's why we are used testing the values mentioned above, and we usually recommend to our users to use one of those in order to be safe. If that's the case here, there's nothing we can do on our side. If you try other devices you'll find a lot more that their drivers behave this way, meaning that they have various artifacts on odd values and work perfect in values mentioned above. Still you'll find others that work perfect no matter the buffer size, thus excluding VirtualDJ as being the cause of the glitches.

Haha :D
Yes normally I also use the standard buffer sizes, but I found the DJM-900NXS (1&2) drivers to work really well at 192 samples. That's why I tried the same with the SRT driver, since it is from the same manufacturer, but I guess it depends on each device :)

As I discovered that, I thought about the clock speed of computer components. That's what I meant with the tact the drivers could need. Maybe this thought is right in some way, but good to know this for the future :)

Ps.:
Could you explain me why the gain has a special behaviour, other than the normal channel-controls?
I just want to understand the reason for this :)
You can write a personal message if you want, since this is slightly off topic.
 

Inviato Mon 30 Sep 19 @ 7:18 am
What do you mean gain has special behavior ?
 

Inviato Mon 30 Sep 19 @ 7:45 am
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