VDJ Monty
Hi there,
Why do I not get technical support about the Rane/ VDJ issue?
Cheers
Why do I not get technical support about the Rane/ VDJ issue?
Cheers
Inviato Tue 03 Nov 20 @ 10:55 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
What issue you had in mind?
This one https://www.virtualdj.com/forums/238172/VirtualDJ_Technical_Support/Rane_72_waveform_issue_Update_V8_5_b6150.html ?
If so., already fixed
This one https://www.virtualdj.com/forums/238172/VirtualDJ_Technical_Support/Rane_72_waveform_issue_Update_V8_5_b6150.html ?
If so., already fixed
Inviato Tue 03 Nov 20 @ 11:47 pm
VDJ Monty
I mean the issues with the audio glitches with the Rane twelve platters.
Inviato Tue 03 Nov 20 @ 11:49 pm
PhantomDeejay
Issues like that are not easy to debug.
We are listening and we are investigating this as it has been said in another thread already.
The problem is that not all systems have the same behavior, and that despite the fact that we have tested on a fair amount of different systems we could not find a way to replicate the issue in order to debug it.
Finally, one last comment:
Numark, Denon and Rane are all owned by the same company.
And all of their motorized gear use the exact same firmware regarding the motor functions. There are many users that use motorized gear from these brands without issues. Then occasionally there are a few that have issues. So yes, there is a problem somewhere that needs to be resolved. But it's not a problem in general as you implied on another thread.
When we find a solution, be assured that we will update the software to include the fix ASAP and will let everyone know it.
We are listening and we are investigating this as it has been said in another thread already.
The problem is that not all systems have the same behavior, and that despite the fact that we have tested on a fair amount of different systems we could not find a way to replicate the issue in order to debug it.
Finally, one last comment:
Numark, Denon and Rane are all owned by the same company.
And all of their motorized gear use the exact same firmware regarding the motor functions. There are many users that use motorized gear from these brands without issues. Then occasionally there are a few that have issues. So yes, there is a problem somewhere that needs to be resolved. But it's not a problem in general as you implied on another thread.
When we find a solution, be assured that we will update the software to include the fix ASAP and will let everyone know it.
Inviato Wed 04 Nov 20 @ 8:14 am
VDJ Monty
> we are investigating this as it has been said in another thread already
Ive found several threds, but not the one, where someone from VDJ takes care about this issue. Ive set a simple question: "It it solved?" But no answer is coming. If the technical support keeps silent, than that means that they want it sweep under the carpet. If there would be an answer like "not yet", this means someone takes care and i have to wait. But in the silent case, i have to decide, if i will sell the Rane or if i will switch to Serato, where it works.
> The problem is that not all systems have the same behavior, and that despite the fact that we have tested on a fair amount of different systems we could not find a way to replicate the issue in order to debug it.
In this case the technical support should do this: Answer to the peoples, witch can replicate it, as example... "me". Ask some questions, request Midi logs, whatever. But not: "We will just keep silent, maybe he will go away by himself, if he thinks that nobody is here".
> But it's not a problem in general as you implied on another thread.
If i find several threads with this problem and if ive tested two different computers, that this means that this issue is serious. Not everyone can have this issue, because a lot of them are using traditional DVS with the Rane, or deck 3+4. Did you read my investigation report that this happens with Midi mode only and on deck 1+2 only? Ive also investigated that the Rane is sending the same good signal for deck 1,2,3 and 4. So it should be a software issue at deck 1 and 2. I cannot test older versions of VDJ, because my Rane Twelve MKII will not be recognized from older VDJ versions.
Again: You will not solve it when you dont ask any questions, so please, speak to me, ask some questions, let me try different things, send some analysis tools to me, work together with me. The english language is not my mother language, but i hope its good enough to support you regarding this issue.
Im going to setup two more computers now to see if there is a difference.
Ive found several threds, but not the one, where someone from VDJ takes care about this issue. Ive set a simple question: "It it solved?" But no answer is coming. If the technical support keeps silent, than that means that they want it sweep under the carpet. If there would be an answer like "not yet", this means someone takes care and i have to wait. But in the silent case, i have to decide, if i will sell the Rane or if i will switch to Serato, where it works.
> The problem is that not all systems have the same behavior, and that despite the fact that we have tested on a fair amount of different systems we could not find a way to replicate the issue in order to debug it.
In this case the technical support should do this: Answer to the peoples, witch can replicate it, as example... "me". Ask some questions, request Midi logs, whatever. But not: "We will just keep silent, maybe he will go away by himself, if he thinks that nobody is here".
> But it's not a problem in general as you implied on another thread.
If i find several threads with this problem and if ive tested two different computers, that this means that this issue is serious. Not everyone can have this issue, because a lot of them are using traditional DVS with the Rane, or deck 3+4. Did you read my investigation report that this happens with Midi mode only and on deck 1+2 only? Ive also investigated that the Rane is sending the same good signal for deck 1,2,3 and 4. So it should be a software issue at deck 1 and 2. I cannot test older versions of VDJ, because my Rane Twelve MKII will not be recognized from older VDJ versions.
Again: You will not solve it when you dont ask any questions, so please, speak to me, ask some questions, let me try different things, send some analysis tools to me, work together with me. The english language is not my mother language, but i hope its good enough to support you regarding this issue.
Im going to setup two more computers now to see if there is a difference.
Inviato Wed 04 Nov 20 @ 10:54 pm
PhantomDeejay
Just recently, in this thread https://www.virtualdj.com/forums/237442/VirtualDJ_Technical_Support/Denon_SC5000M__oscillatory_playback_speed.html an Atomix representative said that "we are looking at this"
Also, in the past (even with Rane Twelve MKI models that don't have DVS support) we tried the "ask the user questions" approach that you recommended without any success.
For several reasons which are beyond the scope of this post, but mostly because of the technical nature of how motorwheels work.
Finally, we are not hiding anything, nor we let it slip under the carpet. If that was the case, I would not being replying to you now, or a few posts above.
PS: Your Deck 3 vs Deck 1 findings are interesting. You are the only user that experience that though AFAIK.
One of our main testing computers is an old i5 4th gen, Windows 10 PC.
We are able to run 4 Twelves and a Seventy-Two on it, and all decks behave exactly the same.
We DO have some initial thoughts as what may be the cause of the behavior you describe that we are currently exploring. If we find something on that path and we need to perform a test, be assured that we will contact you. We have done that several times in the past and we never kept it secret either.
On the other hand please keep in mind:
1) Technical Support Staff cannot have that much specialized knowledge in order to know the internals of how each device firmware manipulates data, nor how the software treats these data internally
2) Developers (that do have that knowledge) are better to spend their time trying to resolve people's issues, rather than replying to forum posts all the time. When they need something from a user, they DO ask though.
3) Resolving a software issue (any software issue for any given software, not the specific one) cannot conform to timeframes. As anyone that ever tried to create a program a little more complicated than the "Hello World" app knows, it could take minutes, hours, dates, even months. That's why we never reply to such questions or give timeframes.
It will be ready when it's ready. It will be fixed, when it's fixed. Unfortunately every developer and every software user has to live by that.
We never said that this issue is not serious (for those that experience it)
We said that we have a lot more users without this issue, using several different devices, with several different systems.
We don't blame the units, nor the user systems. We just need to find the weird and rare situations combo that makes this issue appear, and then solve it.
Also usually most people on forums don't praise their software or controllers. Most people come to ask for support. So it's absolutely logical to find more complaints/issues than praises for anything on forums.
Also, in the past (even with Rane Twelve MKI models that don't have DVS support) we tried the "ask the user questions" approach that you recommended without any success.
For several reasons which are beyond the scope of this post, but mostly because of the technical nature of how motorwheels work.
Finally, we are not hiding anything, nor we let it slip under the carpet. If that was the case, I would not being replying to you now, or a few posts above.
PS: Your Deck 3 vs Deck 1 findings are interesting. You are the only user that experience that though AFAIK.
One of our main testing computers is an old i5 4th gen, Windows 10 PC.
We are able to run 4 Twelves and a Seventy-Two on it, and all decks behave exactly the same.
We DO have some initial thoughts as what may be the cause of the behavior you describe that we are currently exploring. If we find something on that path and we need to perform a test, be assured that we will contact you. We have done that several times in the past and we never kept it secret either.
On the other hand please keep in mind:
1) Technical Support Staff cannot have that much specialized knowledge in order to know the internals of how each device firmware manipulates data, nor how the software treats these data internally
2) Developers (that do have that knowledge) are better to spend their time trying to resolve people's issues, rather than replying to forum posts all the time. When they need something from a user, they DO ask though.
3) Resolving a software issue (any software issue for any given software, not the specific one) cannot conform to timeframes. As anyone that ever tried to create a program a little more complicated than the "Hello World" app knows, it could take minutes, hours, dates, even months. That's why we never reply to such questions or give timeframes.
It will be ready when it's ready. It will be fixed, when it's fixed. Unfortunately every developer and every software user has to live by that.
Quote :
If i find several threads with this problem and if ive tested two different computers, that this means that this issue is serious
We never said that this issue is not serious (for those that experience it)
We said that we have a lot more users without this issue, using several different devices, with several different systems.
We don't blame the units, nor the user systems. We just need to find the weird and rare situations combo that makes this issue appear, and then solve it.
Also usually most people on forums don't praise their software or controllers. Most people come to ask for support. So it's absolutely logical to find more complaints/issues than praises for anything on forums.
Inviato Thu 05 Nov 20 @ 12:37 am
VDJ Monty
Quote :
finally, we are not hiding anything, nor we let it slip under the carpet.
If a user is asking if the problem with MK1 is solved already and if he will not get any response - estimate, what he will think about it.
If this user buys a MKII and the problem is still present and he will request technical support and he will not get any response - estimate, what he will think about it.
By the way, if you are not able to duplicate it:
Ive found out that it is impossible to hear the gliches on songs with drums and beats like Rock or EDM. You should choose a slow song with long intrument tones like a piano.
As example:
No More Boleros - Gerhard Joling
I Don't Like Mondays - The Boomtown Rats
If you wish, i can send you a private download link.
There is another small test that you can do:
Connect one Rane only and assign it to deck 1. Load deck 1 and deck 2 with the same song and check that both pitch faders are on 0%. Disable Master Tempo. Press play on both decks and synchronize the waveform / the beat markers. You can see that the beat markes a not in sync after 10 seconds anymore.
And:
A developer can log the correction modulation values of the oscilator. If he will will import them into a graph, im sure, he will see a lot of them correction modulations on this graph.
Inviato Tue 10 Nov 20 @ 9:18 pm
VDJ Monty
I need to correct one point:
The fact that the problem exists on deck 1+2 and ont on deck 2+4 is wrong. Ive loaded another skin and found out that master tempo was enabled on deck 2 and 4, so the glitches are not to hear. So, all decks 1+2+3+4 have the same problem. But the tests mentioned in my message above are still easy to reproduce it.
The fact that the problem exists on deck 1+2 and ont on deck 2+4 is wrong. Ive loaded another skin and found out that master tempo was enabled on deck 2 and 4, so the glitches are not to hear. So, all decks 1+2+3+4 have the same problem. But the tests mentioned in my message above are still easy to reproduce it.
Inviato Tue 10 Nov 20 @ 10:38 pm