klausmogensen
The Pioneer acquisition of Serato has been denied. Here is Mojaxx's take on it:
https://youtube.com/shorts/uCuQv2D8qPM?si=aUrypDoYtIayJpTH
What do you think comes next?
Will they appeal the decision?
Or will Serato just continue like nothing happened?
Or will they try to sell themselves to someone else? (Atomix, do you happen to have 100 million dollars laying around 🙂 )
Does anyone have any insights?
https://youtube.com/shorts/uCuQv2D8qPM?si=aUrypDoYtIayJpTH
What do you think comes next?
Will they appeal the decision?
Or will Serato just continue like nothing happened?
Or will they try to sell themselves to someone else? (Atomix, do you happen to have 100 million dollars laying around 🙂 )
Does anyone have any insights?
Inviato Thu 18 Jul 24 @ 6:33 am
djjohnnyrox
Maybe they should buy Traktor ..... what a disappointing new update...
Inviato Thu 18 Jul 24 @ 8:57 am
groovindj
Why disappointing?
OK the flexible grids are no better than what we have in VDJ (markers have to be added manually) and the stem separation isn't on-the-fly (you have to save them to a file and it's very slow) but the browser flickering has been fixed!
Apparently the flickering started in 2011, so that's a mere 13 year wait.
OK the flexible grids are no better than what we have in VDJ (markers have to be added manually) and the stem separation isn't on-the-fly (you have to save them to a file and it's very slow) but the browser flickering has been fixed!
Apparently the flickering started in 2011, so that's a mere 13 year wait.
Inviato Thu 18 Jul 24 @ 9:21 am
PhantomDeejay
And still no Retina display support..
Inviato Thu 18 Jul 24 @ 10:09 am
DJ VinylTouch
I'm surprised this didn't set the forums on fire immediately when the news came out yesterday.
To me the attempted acquisition was bound to be denied based on where it left hardware partners wrt any competitive advantage.
AlphaTheta may appeal but I don't see any immediate change of decision happening.
If Serato is really that strained cashwise, another player may step in to scoop them up (a player not considered to result in ultimate dominance by the acquisition), or they may change to a different revenue model (i.e. subscription being the only way). If not, the status quo will proceed.
It's a bit too early to tell though.
WRT Traktor the flexible beatgrids is what I thought it would be (regular industry standard, not dynamic), but it's a bit surprising they didn't have the stem separation truly on the fly (maybe they didn't want to force high spec machine requirements?). They also cancelled their subscription model, which is interesting and different from the current trend.
To me the attempted acquisition was bound to be denied based on where it left hardware partners wrt any competitive advantage.
AlphaTheta may appeal but I don't see any immediate change of decision happening.
If Serato is really that strained cashwise, another player may step in to scoop them up (a player not considered to result in ultimate dominance by the acquisition), or they may change to a different revenue model (i.e. subscription being the only way). If not, the status quo will proceed.
It's a bit too early to tell though.
WRT Traktor the flexible beatgrids is what I thought it would be (regular industry standard, not dynamic), but it's a bit surprising they didn't have the stem separation truly on the fly (maybe they didn't want to force high spec machine requirements?). They also cancelled their subscription model, which is interesting and different from the current trend.
Inviato Thu 18 Jul 24 @ 11:07 am
djjohnnyrox
groovindj wrote :
Why disappointing?
OK the flexible grids are no better than what we have in VDJ (markers have to be added manually) and the stem separation isn't on-the-fly (you have to save them to a file and it's very slow) but the browser flickering has been fixed!
Apparently the flickering started in 2011, so that's a mere 13 year wait.
OK the flexible grids are no better than what we have in VDJ (markers have to be added manually) and the stem separation isn't on-the-fly (you have to save them to a file and it's very slow) but the browser flickering has been fixed!
Apparently the flickering started in 2011, so that's a mere 13 year wait.
Let's see....
My M1 Mac Roughly 2 mins per song to use stems
No way to decode multiple songs at once
Can't decode stems on the fly
This is a standard feature in every other software.
$79 for me to update (at least there's no subscription cost)
Can't confirm if they have fixed the flickering
No retina support
A few other things that may be petty to most
I started laptop djing in 2001 with Traktor I still have the original software disc (wish I still had the original scratch amp) It was great software for the time but they are slow to innovate I Moved over to VDJ in 2010 because I needed to mix music videos . Traktor still doesn't do video .
Inviato Thu 18 Jul 24 @ 9:05 pm
DJ VinylTouch
Just a small add to this:
Native Instruments did end up adding the Isotope Ozone Maximizer into Traktor in the new version 4.
I know that there have been many discussions on this over here and I do agree that maximization is distorting the original sound, but having the option built in gives more flexibility to us, especially when working back to back with users of other software, and it also means we don't have to depend on third party implementations (something that can always disappear/perhaps stop working due to lack of updates in the future depending on the project) - it seems NI saw enough value in that to include it.
Native Instruments did end up adding the Isotope Ozone Maximizer into Traktor in the new version 4.
I know that there have been many discussions on this over here and I do agree that maximization is distorting the original sound, but having the option built in gives more flexibility to us, especially when working back to back with users of other software, and it also means we don't have to depend on third party implementations (something that can always disappear/perhaps stop working due to lack of updates in the future depending on the project) - it seems NI saw enough value in that to include it.
Inviato Mon 22 Jul 24 @ 12:03 am
PhantomDeejay
My personal take:
If you come into my club and you use a maximizer, I will NOT try to compete with you (in loudness)
Instead, I will ask you to turn your volume down.
Loudness IS NOT an acceptable field of competition for me, especially since the club's PA can easily become illegal to use due to high SPL.
Generally speaking DJ's have a bad reputation when it comes to touring sound (big PA systems) because of 2 reasons:
1) Redlining, and
2) Maximizing/Compressing/Overcompressing their sound.
A sound engineer in a big PA wants a clear uncompressed signal. Then, it's up to him to add compression IF needed and tweak it's parameters (threshold, ratio, knee, attack/release times e.t.c.) according to the given system and the application/venue.
I'm not against compression, when it's used right!
But on most cases it's NOT.
People in the past have accused VirtualDJ for "bad" sound because of the built-in limiter that you cannot bypass.
Of course, in a properly tweaked system, a user should almost never hit the limiter. But that was not the case for a lot of users.
And yes we spent countless hours explaining to our users WHY they should not hit the limiter, and how the limiter was not the problem, but the way they used the software was.
Same thing will happen with Traktor.
Once your "average" amateur DJ crank up the "maximizer" and "everything screams" constantly, Traktor will have to deal with the same BS. "Traktor has bad sound" will become a thing.. Not because of the sound, but because the average user does not understand when and why he should use the damn maximizer.
So, be my guest Traktor, welcome to the "bad sound" world!
PS: As I said, this is my PERSONAL take on this, and it does not represent the position of Atomix Inc. in ANY way.
PS2: I have used one or two versions of iZotope Ozone mastering suite in the past as a post production tool.
I know it can work wonders. But for me, while it's one of the best tools for post production, it's one of the most dangerous tools for real time usage.
In post, you can hear and compare the results, and tweak it, to produce the desired result.
In real-time, it's VERY EASY to produce unwanted results. So, while I could probably run all of my recordings through Ozone for post processing, I would never use it as a real time VST effect on my master output, outside of a controlled environment.
If you come into my club and you use a maximizer, I will NOT try to compete with you (in loudness)
Instead, I will ask you to turn your volume down.
Loudness IS NOT an acceptable field of competition for me, especially since the club's PA can easily become illegal to use due to high SPL.
Generally speaking DJ's have a bad reputation when it comes to touring sound (big PA systems) because of 2 reasons:
1) Redlining, and
2) Maximizing/Compressing/Overcompressing their sound.
A sound engineer in a big PA wants a clear uncompressed signal. Then, it's up to him to add compression IF needed and tweak it's parameters (threshold, ratio, knee, attack/release times e.t.c.) according to the given system and the application/venue.
I'm not against compression, when it's used right!
But on most cases it's NOT.
People in the past have accused VirtualDJ for "bad" sound because of the built-in limiter that you cannot bypass.
Of course, in a properly tweaked system, a user should almost never hit the limiter. But that was not the case for a lot of users.
And yes we spent countless hours explaining to our users WHY they should not hit the limiter, and how the limiter was not the problem, but the way they used the software was.
Same thing will happen with Traktor.
Once your "average" amateur DJ crank up the "maximizer" and "everything screams" constantly, Traktor will have to deal with the same BS. "Traktor has bad sound" will become a thing.. Not because of the sound, but because the average user does not understand when and why he should use the damn maximizer.
So, be my guest Traktor, welcome to the "bad sound" world!
PS: As I said, this is my PERSONAL take on this, and it does not represent the position of Atomix Inc. in ANY way.
PS2: I have used one or two versions of iZotope Ozone mastering suite in the past as a post production tool.
I know it can work wonders. But for me, while it's one of the best tools for post production, it's one of the most dangerous tools for real time usage.
In post, you can hear and compare the results, and tweak it, to produce the desired result.
In real-time, it's VERY EASY to produce unwanted results. So, while I could probably run all of my recordings through Ozone for post processing, I would never use it as a real time VST effect on my master output, outside of a controlled environment.
Inviato Mon 22 Jul 24 @ 10:09 am
DJ VinylTouch
@PhantomDeejay I agree with and respect that take - I don't like messing with the original signal either but it's clear that most DJs have been biased towards the sound coloring, and are probably not even aware of it happening due to the status quo.
I honestly don't know where the decision in DJ software to maximize the sound before master output came from - it does seem contrary to having clean audio output. I also don't understand the argument against the VirtualDJ limiter as it's there for protection and doesn't add to the sound.
However, the harder part is convincing DJs/club engineers to adjust their volume settings, especially if the PA has already been tuned by the engineer to a particular software's output level. If you are a headliner/big name DJ, it's an easier thing to make happen, but if you are just the average person playing there, you'll almost always get a negative response/pushback from somebody higher up the chain. So we are given to cranking up the volume somewhere in the chain where we control, and DJs/Engineers seem to get scared when they see gains being increased (the DJ before wonders why, the DJ after (if the mixer was left as is and they actually didn't pay attention to the output) thinks "this guy is an idiot because he was probably redlining"). Currently I would instead just use the zeroDB to turn down the output a bit then use the maximizer VST on the master to bring it to a similar level output to remove that manual adjustment need and avoid misunderstanding by the other "professionals" - it's a sad thing but really a case of when in Rome.
If I'm the only person playing (e.g. a wedding or mobile gig), I'd never mess with the original signal, but I have all the control there.
I honestly don't know where the decision in DJ software to maximize the sound before master output came from - it does seem contrary to having clean audio output. I also don't understand the argument against the VirtualDJ limiter as it's there for protection and doesn't add to the sound.
However, the harder part is convincing DJs/club engineers to adjust their volume settings, especially if the PA has already been tuned by the engineer to a particular software's output level. If you are a headliner/big name DJ, it's an easier thing to make happen, but if you are just the average person playing there, you'll almost always get a negative response/pushback from somebody higher up the chain. So we are given to cranking up the volume somewhere in the chain where we control, and DJs/Engineers seem to get scared when they see gains being increased (the DJ before wonders why, the DJ after (if the mixer was left as is and they actually didn't pay attention to the output) thinks "this guy is an idiot because he was probably redlining"). Currently I would instead just use the zeroDB to turn down the output a bit then use the maximizer VST on the master to bring it to a similar level output to remove that manual adjustment need and avoid misunderstanding by the other "professionals" - it's a sad thing but really a case of when in Rome.
If I'm the only person playing (e.g. a wedding or mobile gig), I'd never mess with the original signal, but I have all the control there.
Inviato Mon 22 Jul 24 @ 11:38 am
kradcliffe
I can see where it's a no no for clubs, but for mobile DJs sometimes an "adjustment" is needed.
For example I have a Bose F1 system that is fed from my MCX8000 main XLR output to the tops and the booth XLR output to the subs all flat and it's perfect.
However if I work for one of the local companies now and again they put out an ancient rig that's flat as a pancake, so I use the bass and treble adjustment on the MCX8000 booth output to boost the sound a bit as it is absolutely terrible in it's raw form.
For example I have a Bose F1 system that is fed from my MCX8000 main XLR output to the tops and the booth XLR output to the subs all flat and it's perfect.
However if I work for one of the local companies now and again they put out an ancient rig that's flat as a pancake, so I use the bass and treble adjustment on the MCX8000 booth output to boost the sound a bit as it is absolutely terrible in it's raw form.
Inviato Mon 22 Jul 24 @ 11:42 am
klausmogensen
kradcliffe wrote :
I can see where it's a no no for clubs, but for mobile DJs sometimes an "adjustment" is needed.
For example I have a Bose F1 system that is fed from my MCX8000 main XLR output to the tops and the booth XLR output to the subs all flat and it's perfect.
However if I work for one of the local companies now and again they put out an ancient rig that's flat as a pancake, so I use the bass and treble adjustment on the MCX8000 booth output to boost the sound a bit as it is absolutely terrible in it's raw form.
For example I have a Bose F1 system that is fed from my MCX8000 main XLR output to the tops and the booth XLR output to the subs all flat and it's perfect.
However if I work for one of the local companies now and again they put out an ancient rig that's flat as a pancake, so I use the bass and treble adjustment on the MCX8000 booth output to boost the sound a bit as it is absolutely terrible in it's raw form.
For that I would use a master FX
Like with Loudmax:
... but I think it's fine that people have to work a bit to get it, so they don't just set something the first time they open VDJ, and then get bad/compressed sound forever :)
Inviato Mon 22 Jul 24 @ 11:47 am
