Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
we rock!;)
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1342991.ece
http://www.boingboing.net/2006/06/07/norwegian_ombudsman_.html
complaint states that Apple's FairPlay digital rights management (DRM) mechanism violates Norwegian law giving consumers the right to use freely any legally purchased products.
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=14874
Norway's Consumer Ombudsman has slammed Apple's iTunes service, saying the terms and conditions of the store violate Norwegian law.
The government consumer rights watchdog is annoyed that songs sold through iTunes are rights-protected by Apple in such a way as they cannot be transferred into other digital music formats, and cannot be played on other devices.
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1342991.ece
http://www.boingboing.net/2006/06/07/norwegian_ombudsman_.html
complaint states that Apple's FairPlay digital rights management (DRM) mechanism violates Norwegian law giving consumers the right to use freely any legally purchased products.
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=14874
Norway's Consumer Ombudsman has slammed Apple's iTunes service, saying the terms and conditions of the store violate Norwegian law.
The government consumer rights watchdog is annoyed that songs sold through iTunes are rights-protected by Apple in such a way as they cannot be transferred into other digital music formats, and cannot be played on other devices.
Inviato Mon 12 Jun 06 @ 6:44 pm
xeon
interesting.. :D
btw this is my 1000th msg here :D
btw this is my 1000th msg here :D
Inviato Mon 12 Jun 06 @ 7:08 pm
frd1963
I'll play devil's advocate:
Isn't that like saying that CD's should be outlawed because they don't play in tape decks?
Isn't that like saying that CD's should be outlawed because they don't play in tape decks?
Inviato Mon 12 Jun 06 @ 7:16 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
CD's are banned in Norway too ;) lool
hehe
hehe
Inviato Mon 12 Jun 06 @ 7:38 pm
asymptote
This is very interesting.
Maybe we should all move to Norway ;-)
Maybe we should all move to Norway ;-)
Inviato Mon 12 Jun 06 @ 8:04 pm
A Man and His Music
I'll play devil's advocate:
"Isn't that like saying that CD's should be outlawed because they don't play in tape decks?"
No, because you can record that CD onto a tape, harddrive, re-movable drive, I-pod, or any other mp3 player. Or onto one of those mini thumb drives. Now, do you see the difference?
"Isn't that like saying that CD's should be outlawed because they don't play in tape decks?"
No, because you can record that CD onto a tape, harddrive, re-movable drive, I-pod, or any other mp3 player. Or onto one of those mini thumb drives. Now, do you see the difference?
Inviato Mon 12 Jun 06 @ 8:40 pm
antileon
True,
The story looks like a classical moment 22 to me.
The story looks like a classical moment 22 to me.
Inviato Mon 12 Jun 06 @ 8:55 pm
listen2
looks like someone might be moving ... ;)
Inviato Mon 12 Jun 06 @ 9:11 pm
bagpuss
At least some of Europes got its head screwed on, but then again Norway doesn't have that desease known as the EU hehe :).
Inviato Mon 12 Jun 06 @ 9:17 pm
sjursjur
I think that the case isn't that you can't copy to other formats, but rather that the only PMP compatible with iTunes-files is Apple's own iPod. Thus Apple's marketing strategy seems to opt for monopoly (cheap music, yes, but you HAVE to buy OUR PMP to take it with you.)
Also, I seem to remember reading that Sweden (and Denmark, or was it Finland?) is down with Norway on this issue...
Also, I seem to remember reading that Sweden (and Denmark, or was it Finland?) is down with Norway on this issue...
Inviato Tue 13 Jun 06 @ 12:11 am
A Man and His Music
"I think that the case isn't that you can't copy to other formats, but rather that the only PMP compatible with iTunes-files is Apple's own iPod. Thus Apple's marketing strategy seems to opt for monopoly (cheap music, yes, but you HAVE to buy OUR PMP to take it with you.)"
Hum, didn't some jerk off Attorney General sue Microsoft for the same behavior? What a compete waste of my money. I see this as a good business strategy. You want to buy my product, this is how I am selling it. You don't like it, don't buy it. Period. Perfect example. You want On Star, you can only get it on a GM product. Should we take them to court, and force them to make it available to other automakers? And why can't I get a Big Mac at Wendy's, it's closer to me? You see where I'm going? Me, I don't own an Ipod for that reason, but they should still be able to market it anyway they want. We have a choice.
Hum, didn't some jerk off Attorney General sue Microsoft for the same behavior? What a compete waste of my money. I see this as a good business strategy. You want to buy my product, this is how I am selling it. You don't like it, don't buy it. Period. Perfect example. You want On Star, you can only get it on a GM product. Should we take them to court, and force them to make it available to other automakers? And why can't I get a Big Mac at Wendy's, it's closer to me? You see where I'm going? Me, I don't own an Ipod for that reason, but they should still be able to market it anyway they want. We have a choice.
Inviato Tue 13 Jun 06 @ 9:32 am
pern
@sjursjur
It's Norway, Sweden And Denmark .
It's Norway, Sweden And Denmark .
Inviato Tue 13 Jun 06 @ 9:59 am
ConQuest
As much as I respect you Dj-in-Norway, it makes no difference to us.
We'll just pull out of any countries that try to take any actions that result in STATE SPONSORED PIRACY http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060322-6434.html on our services and/or products, the same way we were going to pull out of France when they tried this last month. That's why this same proposal was... "revised" [to say the least]... in committee.
"French DRM law gutted"
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060501-6715.html
"The French [and now Norwegian, among others] implementation of the EU Copyright Directive will result in state-sponsored piracy," said Apple spokeswoman Natalie Kerris. "If this happens, legal music sales will plummet just when legitimate alternatives to piracy are winning over customers."
We'll just pull out of any countries that try to take any actions that result in STATE SPONSORED PIRACY http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060322-6434.html on our services and/or products, the same way we were going to pull out of France when they tried this last month. That's why this same proposal was... "revised" [to say the least]... in committee.
"French DRM law gutted"
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060501-6715.html
"The French [and now Norwegian, among others] implementation of the EU Copyright Directive will result in state-sponsored piracy," said Apple spokeswoman Natalie Kerris. "If this happens, legal music sales will plummet just when legitimate alternatives to piracy are winning over customers."
Inviato Tue 13 Jun 06 @ 11:58 am
bagpuss
Currently, as the UK laws stand, you have to buy your music TWICE, broken down you need the original copy or legal music download of an MP3, and then you must pay an Annual DJ licence costing £200-£250. It just seems that these people are making life harder and more expensive for DJ's, when all we do is promote music here, there and everywhere.
Any law that brings justice into the system would be a law I'd welcome.
Any law that brings justice into the system would be a law I'd welcome.
Inviato Tue 13 Jun 06 @ 1:20 pm
ConQuest
Bagpuss wrote :
Currently, as the UK laws stand, you have to buy your music TWICE, broken down you need the original copy or legal music download of an MP3, and then you must pay an Annual DJ licence costing £200-£250.
Yeah, I read about that last year over ther in the UK. That sux. Apple's DRM has nothing to do with your government making you pay for that annual dj license though.
They're just propogating the use of a legal download service to curb rampant piracy, individual or state sponsored.
Inviato Tue 13 Jun 06 @ 1:30 pm
asymptote
This last week I've paid visits to two pubs where they had what they called djs.
In each case they were using laptops with abysmal sound systems, one a home stereo , working for around £35 a night I understand. They both were using VDJ. I assume that they were cracked versions because on the VDJ map there isn't another registered user within 30 miles of where I am.
One of these guys was supposedly doing a rock night, but when I asked for Lynnrd Skynnrd's Freebird, he looked baffled and didn't know it. Hadn't even heard of Lynnrd.
One of these places I would be interested in working in, but these guys have spoilt things. They weren't pulling in any customers for the pubs, they were spoiling the atmosphere and I'd put money on the fact that they hadn't paid for very many of the tracks on their laptops.
Would a license stop this sort of thing??? If so I'd gladly pay my £200 a year.
In each case they were using laptops with abysmal sound systems, one a home stereo , working for around £35 a night I understand. They both were using VDJ. I assume that they were cracked versions because on the VDJ map there isn't another registered user within 30 miles of where I am.
One of these guys was supposedly doing a rock night, but when I asked for Lynnrd Skynnrd's Freebird, he looked baffled and didn't know it. Hadn't even heard of Lynnrd.
One of these places I would be interested in working in, but these guys have spoilt things. They weren't pulling in any customers for the pubs, they were spoiling the atmosphere and I'd put money on the fact that they hadn't paid for very many of the tracks on their laptops.
Would a license stop this sort of thing??? If so I'd gladly pay my £200 a year.
Inviato Tue 13 Jun 06 @ 4:29 pm
bagpuss
That's whats unfair though, the legit DJ is paying for the cowboy, it's simply not fair.
btw, the map does not have every user on it, I'm not on there and I'm soposedly a VIP hehe.
btw, the map does not have every user on it, I'm not on there and I'm soposedly a VIP hehe.
Inviato Tue 13 Jun 06 @ 4:32 pm
asymptote
Yeah, maybe VIPs have invisibity cloaks or something else given to them at some strange initiation ceremony we lesser djs don't know about ;) (tongue in cheek, please don't take the wrong way)
Don't get me wrong, I think the way they are going about the licensing is abysmal. Why should good djs who buy all their tracks pay twice. I've spent thousands over the years and have boxes full of vinyl and CDs.
The licensing authorities ought to be out and about in the pubs and clubs checking on pirate djs hard drives, making sure venues know that using pirated music and cracked software is illegal.
We shouldn't have to pay to use what we have already bought once. I wonder what the licensing people would do if I complained about these two djs. Would they investigate. I doubt it. But people with a license will probably get a visit from them and have to go to a massive amount of trouble to prove they are all legit. Even then it is probably impossible in a lot of cases to drag out the old cd or receipt of a track to prove legitimacy.
To return to the thread. People like Napster offer two types of service. One is a rental one where you can just play any track from their catalogue. If it was legal to use those tracks for djing fair enough, but I am sure it isn't.
Their second service is to sell tracks for digital download at around 80p per track. That is about the same price as a cd album track and they haven't had to produce a CD, print a sleeve, deliver it or pay a retail store their margin. It is a very good deal for them in terms of cost and profit.
Why the hell should we find that we cannot play that track on different equipment. An MP3 file shold be an MP3 file. It would be restrictive practice to produce CDs that only played on one manufactureres machine. I don't know if it's true but tunebite used to claim that using their software to get rid of DRM problems was legal. Has this changed?
It's a hot day, so I'd better cool off.
Good gigging anyway.
Andy
Don't get me wrong, I think the way they are going about the licensing is abysmal. Why should good djs who buy all their tracks pay twice. I've spent thousands over the years and have boxes full of vinyl and CDs.
The licensing authorities ought to be out and about in the pubs and clubs checking on pirate djs hard drives, making sure venues know that using pirated music and cracked software is illegal.
We shouldn't have to pay to use what we have already bought once. I wonder what the licensing people would do if I complained about these two djs. Would they investigate. I doubt it. But people with a license will probably get a visit from them and have to go to a massive amount of trouble to prove they are all legit. Even then it is probably impossible in a lot of cases to drag out the old cd or receipt of a track to prove legitimacy.
To return to the thread. People like Napster offer two types of service. One is a rental one where you can just play any track from their catalogue. If it was legal to use those tracks for djing fair enough, but I am sure it isn't.
Their second service is to sell tracks for digital download at around 80p per track. That is about the same price as a cd album track and they haven't had to produce a CD, print a sleeve, deliver it or pay a retail store their margin. It is a very good deal for them in terms of cost and profit.
Why the hell should we find that we cannot play that track on different equipment. An MP3 file shold be an MP3 file. It would be restrictive practice to produce CDs that only played on one manufactureres machine. I don't know if it's true but tunebite used to claim that using their software to get rid of DRM problems was legal. Has this changed?
It's a hot day, so I'd better cool off.
Good gigging anyway.
Andy
Inviato Tue 13 Jun 06 @ 5:07 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
ConQuest wrote :
As much as I respect you Dj-in-Norway, it makes no difference to us.
We'll just pull out of any countries that try to take any actions ...., the same way we were going to pull out of France when they tried this last month.."
We'll just pull out of any countries that try to take any actions ...., the same way we were going to pull out of France when they tried this last month.."
I respect you too ;)
But can I ask you a question....? Do you work for Apple?;) you are using "WE", and had one memorable passionate thread about Mac's earlier;)
Just askin....
Inviato Tue 13 Jun 06 @ 6:13 pm
asymptote
Yes, if people are making statements like that they should really say who 'we are'
Inviato Tue 13 Jun 06 @ 8:20 pm
