djnanite
I just purchased a pair of Numark NDX800 CDJs for use with Virtual DJ, but I am experiencing problems.
I am using them with Timecode CDs. However, if I play a track and adjust the BPM to anything other than the norm, Virtual DJ cannot track the Timecode properly.
For example: I play a song in Virtual DJ and use the NDX800 to increase the BPM from 130 to 132 BPM. If I then spin the jog wheel anti-clockwise I would expect the playback to slow down in Virtual DJ. Instead, the song's pitch adjusts (I can see the wave form expanding, and the BPM drop by up to 10%). When I release the jog wheel, the BPM returns to 132.
This means I am unable to beat match songs, as I cannot play a song at any speed other than its default BPM.
I have checked the Timecode configuration window - the timecode signals look fine. An identical setup using Pioneer CDJ-1000 MK3 does not exhibit this behaviour.
Has anyone else reported this issue? How can I resolve it?
My setup is:
HP HDX16-1005EA Laptop (4GB RAM).
Behringer DDM4000 Mixer
Numark NDX800.
Hercules Deejay Trim 4 & 6 audio interface.
Windows 7 x64.
Virtual DJ 6.
I am using them with Timecode CDs. However, if I play a track and adjust the BPM to anything other than the norm, Virtual DJ cannot track the Timecode properly.
For example: I play a song in Virtual DJ and use the NDX800 to increase the BPM from 130 to 132 BPM. If I then spin the jog wheel anti-clockwise I would expect the playback to slow down in Virtual DJ. Instead, the song's pitch adjusts (I can see the wave form expanding, and the BPM drop by up to 10%). When I release the jog wheel, the BPM returns to 132.
This means I am unable to beat match songs, as I cannot play a song at any speed other than its default BPM.
I have checked the Timecode configuration window - the timecode signals look fine. An identical setup using Pioneer CDJ-1000 MK3 does not exhibit this behaviour.
Has anyone else reported this issue? How can I resolve it?
My setup is:
HP HDX16-1005EA Laptop (4GB RAM).
Behringer DDM4000 Mixer
Numark NDX800.
Hercules Deejay Trim 4 & 6 audio interface.
Windows 7 x64.
Virtual DJ 6.
Inviato Sun 03 Oct 10 @ 3:08 pm
jpboggis
The Numark NDX-800's are MIDI controllers - You don't need to use timecode.
Inviato Sun 03 Oct 10 @ 3:47 pm
djnanite
jpboggis wrote :
The Numark NDX-800's are MIDI controllers - You don't need to use timecode.
Fair enough - I haven't tried that yet, so I'll give it a go.
But I am concerned as to what the NDX-800 were actually doing to the Timecode CD that caused it to screw up. If they messed up the Timecode signal, what are they doing to music?
Also, what if I have to use these on a DJ program that doesn't support the MIDI functions, and I have to fall back on Timecodes?
Inviato Sun 03 Oct 10 @ 5:56 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
djnanite wrote :
Also, what if I have to use these on a DJ program that doesn't support the MIDI functions, and I have to fall back on Timecodes?
Dont really think thats a fair question seems they cant speak for others programs.
Huey
Inviato Sun 03 Oct 10 @ 6:21 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
djnanite wrote :
For example: I play a song in Virtual DJ and use the NDX800 to increase the BPM from 130 to 132 BPM. If I then spin the jog wheel anti-clockwise I would expect the playback to slow down in Virtual DJ. Instead, the song's pitch adjusts (I can see the wave form expanding, and the BPM drop by up to 10%). When I release the jog wheel, the BPM returns to 132.
To me this seems like its acting more like "Pitch Bend" instead of the "Pitch adjust".
Huey
Inviato Sun 03 Oct 10 @ 9:51 pm
djnanite
beatbreaker1 wrote :
To me this seems like its acting more like "Pitch Bend" instead of the "Pitch adjust".
Huey
To me this seems like its acting more like "Pitch Bend" instead of the "Pitch adjust".
Huey
Exactly! But, it only does it while I am backspinning the jogwheel when the song plays faster than it's standard rate, or forward-spinning the jogwheel when the song plays slower than its standard rate. The pitch returns to normal as the jogwheel slows down.
I've tried playing some songs directly through the NDX800's outputs and it *sounds* OK, but I'm not an audio expert. I can't tell if what it is doing is *supposed* to sound like that.
This is probably something Numark should answer, but I was hoping there might be someone using the same setup as me who had experienced a similar problem and can confirm whether it's a player issue or VirtualDJ issue. I realise Numark aren't exactly 'professional' grade, but the platter behaviour is pretty basic functionality.
Inviato Mon 04 Oct 10 @ 1:31 am
djnanite
jpboggis wrote :
The Numark NDX-800's are MIDI controllers - You don't need to use timecode.
OK, so I can use the NDX800 as MIDI controllers. But how do I capture the sound output from the laptop? Is the sound meant to route through the NDX800 itself, or do I need to fork out (yet more money) for a USB soundcard?
Inviato Mon 04 Oct 10 @ 2:32 am
cstoll
Why are you asking about forking out money for another soundcard?
You obviously have a sound card already since you were using the NDX800 with timecodes.
As to your one question about "What is the NDX doing to the timecode?" - With any timecode setup - you cannot use the CD Player KEY or Master Tempo features with Timecode. Those built in features 'warp' or 'distort' the timecode signal that then the software can not respond to properly.
But back to your current question -- don't know 'how' you routed VirtualDJ through the NDX-800, considering it doesn't work that way .. but I will take your word on it.
The way you should have things setup is how ever you did for using them with Timecode. The only difference is that you will not run RCA from the NDX to your soundcard and will not setup the Timecode options in VirtualDJ. And you will place the units in MIDI mode before opening VirtualDJ.
You obviously have a sound card already since you were using the NDX800 with timecodes.
As to your one question about "What is the NDX doing to the timecode?" - With any timecode setup - you cannot use the CD Player KEY or Master Tempo features with Timecode. Those built in features 'warp' or 'distort' the timecode signal that then the software can not respond to properly.
But back to your current question -- don't know 'how' you routed VirtualDJ through the NDX-800, considering it doesn't work that way .. but I will take your word on it.
The way you should have things setup is how ever you did for using them with Timecode. The only difference is that you will not run RCA from the NDX to your soundcard and will not setup the Timecode options in VirtualDJ. And you will place the units in MIDI mode before opening VirtualDJ.
Inviato Mon 04 Oct 10 @ 11:19 am
djnanite
cstoll wrote :
You obviously have a sound card already since you were using the NDX800 with timecodes.
You obviously have a sound card already since you were using the NDX800 with timecodes.
Good point - I was missing the obvious here. I have a Hercules Deejay Trim which I was using for Timecodes. I forgot it also doubles up as a soundcard and USB hub, so I plugged in my NDX800's into the USB ports on that and I was away! Hurrah!
cstoll wrote :
As to your one question about "What is the NDX doing to the timecode?" - With any timecode setup - you cannot use the CD Player KEY or Master Tempo features with Timecode. Those built in features 'warp' or 'distort' the timecode signal that then the software can not respond to properly.
As to your one question about "What is the NDX doing to the timecode?" - With any timecode setup - you cannot use the CD Player KEY or Master Tempo features with Timecode. Those built in features 'warp' or 'distort' the timecode signal that then the software can not respond to properly.
Yea, I tried it with both the master tempo on and off. If the master tempo is on, the pitch adjust didn't work at all. If the master tempo is off, I get the problem I originally described. It's a moot point now though - it works far better using the USB/MIDI setup anyway.
Thanks for all your help everyone!
Rob.
Inviato Mon 04 Oct 10 @ 3:27 pm
andytaylor125
How do you find the numark cdjs? When I saw them at bpm I was surprised how big and nice they look. For £300 I think they look like a bargin!
Inviato Mon 04 Oct 10 @ 4:39 pm
djnanite
andytaylor125 wrote :
How do you find the numark cdjs? When I saw them at bpm I was surprised how big and nice they look. For £300 I think they look like a bargin!
I'll be honest - they've been a struggle after using my mate's Pioneers for so long. I've encountered the following issues:
1. The BPM counter doesn't work. After around 30 secs of playback, the BPM counter changes dramatically to a count that is clearly not correct. (e.g. I played a breaks tune at 132 bpm. It seemed to get it for the first 30 secs, then it drops to 97bpm, and never recalculates). This is assuming it even attempts to calculate the BPM at all - some songs just show the BPM of the previous song that was played! OK, so there's a manual tap button so you can set it yourself, but really you shouldn't have to do this for *every* song. Especially as they are marketed as 'professional' units, and are a flagship product for Numark.
2. The timecode problem mentioned above. They are unusable as Timecode units if a program doesn't support their MIDI interface. I don't think that's a real problem these days though to be honest since all modern DJ software supports MIDI.
3. The play/pause/cue button functionality is unusual. I'm used to using Pioneer's method of 'play', then 'pause', then 'set cue'. But with the NDX800 you 'play', then 'pause', and then a cue point is automatically set when you click 'play' again. Pressing the 'Cue' button returns and plays back from that auto cue point. I don't like that. If I set a cue, then play further along the song, then pause it, I cannot resume playback without either setting a new cue point, or resuming from my last cue point. Thankfully, Virtual DJ changes the button usage to more closely match Pioneer's setup.
4. There's no waveform display, but that's not a deal breaker for me.
The broken BPM counter however *is* a deal breaker. I emailed Numark yesterday to see what they say about it. If they don't respond before the weekend, I'll have to return them. If they can tell me how to fix it, I will keep them and I'll post the fix here.
Inviato Mon 04 Oct 10 @ 8:14 pm
cstoll
Are you sure you are using the latest version of Pro ? 6.1.2 ?
This was an issue (BPM display) in the very early release of the definition, but was fixed in the latest version.
This was an issue (BPM display) in the very early release of the definition, but was fixed in the latest version.
Inviato Mon 04 Oct 10 @ 8:24 pm
djnanite
cstoll wrote :
Are you sure you are using the latest version of Pro ? 6.1.2 ?
This was an issue (BPM display) in the very early release of the definition, but was fixed in the latest version.
This was an issue (BPM display) in the very early release of the definition, but was fixed in the latest version.
Sorry - I was referring to their use as pure CDjs, not MIDI controllers. The BPM display is fine when used through Virtual DJ.
But that's no use to anyone who doesn't use Virtual DJ (like most of my other DJ colleagues).
Inviato Mon 04 Oct 10 @ 10:14 pm
djnanite
andytaylor125 wrote :
How do you find the numark cdjs? When I saw them at bpm I was surprised how big and nice they look. For £300 I think they look like a bargin!
Just an update on this.
It's been over 2 weeks since I emailed Numark about the broken BPM counter, and they won't reply. I've emailed them 3 times since then, but there's been no response from them. I called their customer service desk and the guy who answered (Jose) pretty much told me to 'deal with it'. I asked if he could at least test my findings and replicate them himself. He said he wouldn't. I asked if he could at least check that my emails were received. He said he couldn't. I asked if he thought this was good customer service. He didn't answer.
So, if you're just using them as MIDI controllers, they're probably OK since VirtualDJ is doing the grunt of the work.
If you ever want to use them as normal CDJ's though, steer clear. Numark has appalling customer service, and even worse software developers. I'm taking mine back as I can't rely on them.
Hope you find this useful.
Inviato Sun 17 Oct 10 @ 5:27 pm
djnanite
djnanite wrote :
So, if you're just using them as MIDI controllers, they're probably OK since VirtualDJ is doing the grunt of the work.
If you ever want to use them as normal CDJ's though, steer clear. Numark has appalling customer service, and even worse software developers. I'm taking mine back as I can't rely on them.
Hope you find this useful.
So, if you're just using them as MIDI controllers, they're probably OK since VirtualDJ is doing the grunt of the work.
If you ever want to use them as normal CDJ's though, steer clear. Numark has appalling customer service, and even worse software developers. I'm taking mine back as I can't rely on them.
Hope you find this useful.
Yet another update on this.
I didn't take them back. I foolishly relied on them for a party tonight. Here's what happened:
1. Supported MP3 USB did not work. Most tracks (192 kbps constant bitrate) would not play. The deck played a split second of noise followed by silence. Time, BPM, etc...were blank.
2. Supported MP3 CD with the same songs took minutes to read the TOC, and then the selcted track(s) would not play. The deck played a split second of noise followed by silence.Time, BPM, etc... were blank.
3. USB-MIDI control kept crashing every 30 mins. I had to restart Virtual DJ 3 times because the CDJs kept locking up, and the Virtual DJ refused to work without them.
4. Everything worked perfectly when the NDX-800's were swapped with a pair of DENON DNS-1200 CDJs. No other configuration changes were necessary.
So my advice for the Numark NDX-800's - steer well clear! They are not reliable, and Numark are unwilling to provide support for them to resolve these issues.
Inviato Fri 29 Oct 10 @ 1:57 pm