Supacon
I am in the process of tinkering with designs for a new skin that takes advantages of some of the new abilities of VDJ7.
I have been considering creating a skin that allows for 12 decks, but really wonder if there is any point at all - I mean, who would use that many decks? I feel like there should be a skin that showcases this ability of VirtualDJ, but wonder if it's even worth my time. Personally I think that four is enough for the style of DJing that I would do.
What I would like to know is - who out there actually uses more than four decks?
Also, I'm very interested in knowing how you guys use multiple decks.
For me, I would like to use the extra decks to preload tracks at the right cuepoint for really quick transitions and switchovers to other songs, or especially other versions of the same songs.
I can imagine the extra decks being useful for scratch DJs to hold samples and such as well. I'm curious to know!
Who actually wants 8 or 12 decks and why? Or should I just make another 4 deck skin and not bother with such a crazy number of decks?
I have a poll here for those who would like to vote on this:
What is the most decks you could ever want to use?
I have been considering creating a skin that allows for 12 decks, but really wonder if there is any point at all - I mean, who would use that many decks? I feel like there should be a skin that showcases this ability of VirtualDJ, but wonder if it's even worth my time. Personally I think that four is enough for the style of DJing that I would do.
What I would like to know is - who out there actually uses more than four decks?
Also, I'm very interested in knowing how you guys use multiple decks.
For me, I would like to use the extra decks to preload tracks at the right cuepoint for really quick transitions and switchovers to other songs, or especially other versions of the same songs.
I can imagine the extra decks being useful for scratch DJs to hold samples and such as well. I'm curious to know!
Who actually wants 8 or 12 decks and why? Or should I just make another 4 deck skin and not bother with such a crazy number of decks?
I have a poll here for those who would like to vote on this:
What is the most decks you could ever want to use?
Inviato Sun 31 Oct 10 @ 8:18 am
andytaylor125
I'm only just getting into more than 2 decks now, it's been handy to have 2 copies of the same song on 2 decks so you can do a live re-edit and then have the next song ready to mix, or having "happy birthday" lined up on the 3rd deck ready to go at any time.
As for 12, the only thing I can think of would be having 2 main decks and then the other 10 set up like a sampler. The vdj sampler has a few limitations that make it difficult to use. (no pitch lock, no pitch bend to manually make adjustments, no way to preview an individual sample, no eq, no effects, etc)
The key would be getting just the right controls so there's not too many, but everything you need. Off the top of my head: play/stutter, record, volume, sync, nudge left/nudge right, loop (a button that loops the whole of the sample would be clever), crossfader left/right and an effect slot.
Also, finding a way to save the state of the 10 decks so that the loaded tracks don't disappear each time vdj is closed would be very clever!
Perhaps this has just turned into a wishes for sampler development rather than ideas for a skin, but i reckon people might have uses for it. And you could take advantage of the new vdj recording features; a pop up menu to select the recording source would be handy I guess.
For me personally I wouldn't need it for my work, but it'd be fun to mess around on!
As for 12, the only thing I can think of would be having 2 main decks and then the other 10 set up like a sampler. The vdj sampler has a few limitations that make it difficult to use. (no pitch lock, no pitch bend to manually make adjustments, no way to preview an individual sample, no eq, no effects, etc)
The key would be getting just the right controls so there's not too many, but everything you need. Off the top of my head: play/stutter, record, volume, sync, nudge left/nudge right, loop (a button that loops the whole of the sample would be clever), crossfader left/right and an effect slot.
Also, finding a way to save the state of the 10 decks so that the loaded tracks don't disappear each time vdj is closed would be very clever!
Perhaps this has just turned into a wishes for sampler development rather than ideas for a skin, but i reckon people might have uses for it. And you could take advantage of the new vdj recording features; a pop up menu to select the recording source would be handy I guess.
For me personally I wouldn't need it for my work, but it'd be fun to mess around on!
Inviato Sun 31 Oct 10 @ 8:34 am
Supacon
Hey, thanks for your input Andy. Some interesting ideas here, but I don't think they are all possible right now without some work under the hood in VDJ itself.
It makes sense to be able to use extra decks like samplers - one could create very sophisticated live remixes and actually produce tracks with this kind of configuration much as one would use Ableton Live or the like.
The sampler itself has a lot of limitations -- it doesn't work like normal sound from a deck. The sampler either blasts out on ALL channels, or can have one (and only one) dedicated channel assigned to it, and then it uses that channel. So sampler sound can't arbitrarily be assigned to any channel in this way. This is an interesting consideration for a future feature in VDJ, though.
I could still put a sampler "default" button on each deck anyways, allowing you to have a logical spot for each sample, but am not sure if it's worth the screen real-estate it would take.
From a cursory trial, I do believe that a record button could be implemented to allow for recording from each deck. This could be handy.
I'm pretty sure that you can't loop the entire song automatically (I'd love to be proven wrong here)
Saving the state of decks and reloading on reopen would be a damned awesome feature in VDJ if one is in a situation where it needs to be closed and reopened, but don't think this is possible either.
So, yeah, it sounds like you want enhancements to VirtualDJ itself and the sampler, but some of this could be implemented in a multideck skin.
It makes sense to be able to use extra decks like samplers - one could create very sophisticated live remixes and actually produce tracks with this kind of configuration much as one would use Ableton Live or the like.
The sampler itself has a lot of limitations -- it doesn't work like normal sound from a deck. The sampler either blasts out on ALL channels, or can have one (and only one) dedicated channel assigned to it, and then it uses that channel. So sampler sound can't arbitrarily be assigned to any channel in this way. This is an interesting consideration for a future feature in VDJ, though.
I could still put a sampler "default" button on each deck anyways, allowing you to have a logical spot for each sample, but am not sure if it's worth the screen real-estate it would take.
From a cursory trial, I do believe that a record button could be implemented to allow for recording from each deck. This could be handy.
I'm pretty sure that you can't loop the entire song automatically (I'd love to be proven wrong here)
Saving the state of decks and reloading on reopen would be a damned awesome feature in VDJ if one is in a situation where it needs to be closed and reopened, but don't think this is possible either.
So, yeah, it sounds like you want enhancements to VirtualDJ itself and the sampler, but some of this could be implemented in a multideck skin.
Inviato Sun 31 Oct 10 @ 9:26 am
Tear Em 'Up
I know I'm showing my age here a bit but, when I was working the clubs more than a few had three turntables in them. I used the third one very rarely. Usually when I was going to be speed mixing. Still experimenting with v7.....
Inviato Sun 31 Oct 10 @ 11:05 am
i'm gonna get a lot more used to the 4 decks before exploring the 6
i could see myself in future though possibly using 6 as a regular thing
i could see myself in future though possibly using 6 as a regular thing
Inviato Sun 31 Oct 10 @ 1:19 pm
dj-e-lectric
four is about as far as I go (If you can come up with a 4 deck version of your video vision skin that would be AWSOME). I use two for the main decks for video, the third for having a second audio copy of one of the songs for remixing and a 4th for mixing in beats that overlay the two songs in transition. I think if I got more creative than that my head would explode trying to keep track of them all
Inviato Mon 01 Nov 10 @ 9:33 am
Supacon
As far as doing a four-deck implementation, I'm still doing a bit of thinking about how to do it. Originally I did a mock up of a skin that basically was Condensed but with miniature controls for multiple rows of four decks below it. You would then switch the controls to the left and right decks for more controls. Now I'm thinking that this approach doesn't make so much sense, and that it would serve the needs of 95% of people to just make two extra decks that are closer in design to the main decks.
In other words, I was planning a skin like the stock 6-deck version, and now am thinking of doing something closer to the stock 4-deck skin.
Hey e-lectric, I know you have been one of VideoVision's biggest fans :)
What is it about VideoVision that you most like? I've killed future development of VideoVision because it's too hard to maintain, and have come up with a better workflow now for skinning, so most likely it would be a four-deck version of Condensed. (Condensed is my only real money-maker for the developer bounty, it's far more popular).
If you could mash up Condensed and VideoVision, how would you change Condensed to bring more of the features you like from VV into it?
In other words, I was planning a skin like the stock 6-deck version, and now am thinking of doing something closer to the stock 4-deck skin.
Hey e-lectric, I know you have been one of VideoVision's biggest fans :)
What is it about VideoVision that you most like? I've killed future development of VideoVision because it's too hard to maintain, and have come up with a better workflow now for skinning, so most likely it would be a four-deck version of Condensed. (Condensed is my only real money-maker for the developer bounty, it's far more popular).
If you could mash up Condensed and VideoVision, how would you change Condensed to bring more of the features you like from VV into it?
Inviato Mon 01 Nov 10 @ 9:47 am
ewitles
Would love to see condensed have three or four decks - max. i would use the 4th deck as sampler and 3rd deck as a 3rd deck. :)
Inviato Mon 01 Nov 10 @ 12:02 pm
Dawebslingah
I am a little green on how to use more than two decks. Can someone help me out. I also have an issue with this timecode bypass thing now. My setting didn't change but when V7 updated, now I get a timecode bypass message when i try to use my turntable.
Inviato Mon 01 Nov 10 @ 12:11 pm
dj-e-lectric
Not familiar with condensed, I will look at it (I assume it is in the skins download section)...as far as VV here are the main points I like:
1: Color scheme and graphics are very clear and easy on the eyes.
2. The two seperate crossfaders with the "take" buttons right next to them
3. It has all the loop buttons I use (1/2, 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32) without having to turn any knobs, they are right there one touch.
4. It has a good amount of cues, again without having to select anything else, they are right there one touch as are the seperate set and "go to" buttons
5. The mirror imaging of the decks rather than two identical decks side by side
6. The large wave form display.
7. The layout just has a workflow to it that is right in line with my way of doing things....I know this is different for everybody, but this works virtually perfect for me.
The things I could do without are:
1. Smaller video displays so there would be more space for other things.
2. The Loop, Loop Shift, Loop Adjust & shift buttons (I don't do anything that's needs that fancy adjustment)
3. The Stutter and the jump 4 & 16 buttons
4. Pass Thru and Code Enable (don;t even know what these are for but I assume something to do with controllers)
Eliminating these and condensing things a touch should leave enough room to add decks 3 and 4 (I assume these are audio only decks but I don't know as I haven't installed 7 yet to see the new multi deck features.
I can't tell you how many Dj's think I am using some "New" Video program as they don't recognize the VV skin as a virtual Dj skin.....it's great to see their embarr-assed faces when they spend half an hour telling me how all the other "amatuer video Djs use that Virtual Dj crap" and how much cooler my program is for video compared to Seratto.....and then I tell them it IS Virtual Dj!
1: Color scheme and graphics are very clear and easy on the eyes.
2. The two seperate crossfaders with the "take" buttons right next to them
3. It has all the loop buttons I use (1/2, 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32) without having to turn any knobs, they are right there one touch.
4. It has a good amount of cues, again without having to select anything else, they are right there one touch as are the seperate set and "go to" buttons
5. The mirror imaging of the decks rather than two identical decks side by side
6. The large wave form display.
7. The layout just has a workflow to it that is right in line with my way of doing things....I know this is different for everybody, but this works virtually perfect for me.
The things I could do without are:
1. Smaller video displays so there would be more space for other things.
2. The Loop, Loop Shift, Loop Adjust & shift buttons (I don't do anything that's needs that fancy adjustment)
3. The Stutter and the jump 4 & 16 buttons
4. Pass Thru and Code Enable (don;t even know what these are for but I assume something to do with controllers)
Eliminating these and condensing things a touch should leave enough room to add decks 3 and 4 (I assume these are audio only decks but I don't know as I haven't installed 7 yet to see the new multi deck features.
I can't tell you how many Dj's think I am using some "New" Video program as they don't recognize the VV skin as a virtual Dj skin.....it's great to see their embarr-assed faces when they spend half an hour telling me how all the other "amatuer video Djs use that Virtual Dj crap" and how much cooler my program is for video compared to Seratto.....and then I tell them it IS Virtual Dj!
Inviato Mon 01 Nov 10 @ 7:14 pm
Supacon
Heheh... that's funny :) VideoVision certainly doesn't look a ton like stock Virtualdj.
Condensed should offer most of these features, but it does do away with a lot of what I thought most would consider extraneous in VideoVision. It does video just fine, but with a couple fewer controls, and smaller preview windows.
There are no "take" buttons (I didn't use them myself, and wasn't sure if anyone else did).
There are only 4 cues here as opposed to 7 (which I thought was overkill) and they work as hotcues, but also allow for actions with rightclicks and such (hover to see more info).
The biggest feature that condensed offers is that, in my opinion, it is a damned awesome looking skin and it supports ANY normal resolution perfectly, so you have a lot of flexibility. I'm actually quite surprised you haven't tried that one out, e-lectric, I think you'll like it :)
But anyways, we're deviating from the main topic, so if you'd like to try out Condensed and give me your feedback on that, we can discuss in the thread here:
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/128164/Virtual_DJ_Skins/CONDENSED_v1_5_-_The_Capable_Skin_for_Every_Resolution.html
Condensed should offer most of these features, but it does do away with a lot of what I thought most would consider extraneous in VideoVision. It does video just fine, but with a couple fewer controls, and smaller preview windows.
There are no "take" buttons (I didn't use them myself, and wasn't sure if anyone else did).
There are only 4 cues here as opposed to 7 (which I thought was overkill) and they work as hotcues, but also allow for actions with rightclicks and such (hover to see more info).
The biggest feature that condensed offers is that, in my opinion, it is a damned awesome looking skin and it supports ANY normal resolution perfectly, so you have a lot of flexibility. I'm actually quite surprised you haven't tried that one out, e-lectric, I think you'll like it :)
But anyways, we're deviating from the main topic, so if you'd like to try out Condensed and give me your feedback on that, we can discuss in the thread here:
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/128164/Virtual_DJ_Skins/CONDENSED_v1_5_-_The_Capable_Skin_for_Every_Resolution.html
Inviato Mon 01 Nov 10 @ 7:34 pm
dj-e-lectric
Just downloaded it and I will test it out when I test out V7 (I am hoping to get it installed on my test machine at home this weekend)....I will send my comments to the other threat, thanks.
Inviato Mon 01 Nov 10 @ 7:41 pm
thetracker510
i think 4 its enough...unless you're DR. Octupus...he,he
Inviato Mon 01 Nov 10 @ 9:03 pm
jaakko
Actually playing 4 video decks does not work as I expected. When I first heard about VDJ7 I thought that with 4 decks I can have 4 video sources at the same time on output screen. That's not the case. Only 2 video inputs can be seen on output display at a time. Also I thought there would be also some sort of way to crossfade between decks 1 & 3 or 2 & 4. That would need 2-dimension crossfader, like mousepad or kaospad. So IMHO VDJ does not support fully 4 decks.
2-dimension crossfader would be super cool new feature, maybe for VDJ 7.1 :)
2-dimension crossfader would be super cool new feature, maybe for VDJ 7.1 :)
Inviato Tue 02 Nov 10 @ 3:30 am
Supacon
Why on earth would you need that? You can already individually control the assignment of each deck to the crossfader, and you can also control the level of each deck independently in the software (or with a hardware mixer, if you have the hardware to handle it).
VirtualDJ already works the same way as real DJ hardware.
I somewhat agree with you in regards to the video support, but it's still flexible enough to control your assignments of video to each side of the fader however you would need it. What would you do that would ever require displaying more than two video sources at once? Typically you are showing the one you are playing, and then transitioning to the next one. It would be like... sensory overload to try to display three or four videos at once. More than a mere mortal could handle managing while live DJing, I'd think... for that sort of effect, you'd probably have to edit something up in advance with Adobe Premiere or Final Cut Pro or something.
In my opinion, the multideck implementation in VDJ7 is brilliant, but who knows... maybe when computers have more powerful CPUs and GPUs, VDJ could do some of those sorts of things, but that would be a pretty small niche requirement to be met.
VirtualDJ already works the same way as real DJ hardware.
I somewhat agree with you in regards to the video support, but it's still flexible enough to control your assignments of video to each side of the fader however you would need it. What would you do that would ever require displaying more than two video sources at once? Typically you are showing the one you are playing, and then transitioning to the next one. It would be like... sensory overload to try to display three or four videos at once. More than a mere mortal could handle managing while live DJing, I'd think... for that sort of effect, you'd probably have to edit something up in advance with Adobe Premiere or Final Cut Pro or something.
In my opinion, the multideck implementation in VDJ7 is brilliant, but who knows... maybe when computers have more powerful CPUs and GPUs, VDJ could do some of those sorts of things, but that would be a pretty small niche requirement to be met.
Inviato Tue 02 Nov 10 @ 4:08 am
jaakko
Well I don't mean to complain current implementation, it is great. Initially I was thinking about using extra decks like video sampler / clipbank with sound. In this case It would make sense to see more than 2 video sources at the same time on output display. Maybe there could be even grid view, showing every video input at the same time on output. Maybe it's possible to do with some plugin :)
I did not mean to troll anything, just suggesting new ideas. Maybe I should have said this on wish list forum. Currently more than 2 video decks does not work as I initially expected, so I'm currently using only 2 decks (actually 3+ video sources takes a lot of cpu power, that's the main reason I'm not currently using extra decks).
I did not mean to troll anything, just suggesting new ideas. Maybe I should have said this on wish list forum. Currently more than 2 video decks does not work as I initially expected, so I'm currently using only 2 decks (actually 3+ video sources takes a lot of cpu power, that's the main reason I'm not currently using extra decks).
Inviato Tue 02 Nov 10 @ 4:29 am
Supacon
Something that I haven't yet seen in a skin is one that shows four or more decks with a video preview for each of them. I'm assuming it works as I would expect, and that you could see, hypothetically, up to 99 previews of videos if the skin supported it. Obviously you'd have to assign two of those to your master decks at a time.
I'm pretty invested in video, so any skin I do is going to have at least basic support for video.
I'm pretty invested in video, so any skin I do is going to have at least basic support for video.
Inviato Tue 02 Nov 10 @ 7:22 am
the SOUND INSURGENT
Heres my skin, http://www.virtualdj.com/addons/12095/Sweet_Scratch_x4.html, preview windows for all 4 decks. Dans skins and DJdads are also like this.
As far as how many decks I would say 6 at the most. Decks 5 and 6 would be for "LineIn" and "Mic" input so those wouldnt have to be full on decks just the basic controls and effects in my opinion.
Huey
As far as how many decks I would say 6 at the most. Decks 5 and 6 would be for "LineIn" and "Mic" input so those wouldnt have to be full on decks just the basic controls and effects in my opinion.
Huey
Inviato Tue 02 Nov 10 @ 7:30 am
Supacon
Thanks beatbreaker. I've seen some of these skins, but clearly haven't paid enough attention :P
That does sound like a good idea, though to enable decks 5 and 6 and make them more minimalistic (in lieu of making them switchable to master decks or the like).
That does sound like a good idea, though to enable decks 5 and 6 and make them more minimalistic (in lieu of making them switchable to master decks or the like).
Inviato Tue 02 Nov 10 @ 8:04 am
rjbur
Well here is an interesting use of the system.... I would like to install multiple 7.1 surround sound cards in a Desktop computer. Lets say 2 for a total of 16 channels. Then I would like to be able to have as many as 16 individual decks playing sound simultaneously and looping each. I would also like to maybe assign 2 channels when needed to a deck for stereo output when needed.
What the heck would I need to do this for? Good question. Halloween Haunt application or lets say a multi-room sound distribution system like a business might use. We do rather large haunts and we use to use multiple CD players we borrowed from our kids and I would run around and have to keep pressing play every hour. Years ago I moved us to a centralized audio setup where I have distribution amps fed by MP3 players. I would like to do away with the MP3 players and go to a computer based system.
What the heck would I need to do this for? Good question. Halloween Haunt application or lets say a multi-room sound distribution system like a business might use. We do rather large haunts and we use to use multiple CD players we borrowed from our kids and I would run around and have to keep pressing play every hour. Years ago I moved us to a centralized audio setup where I have distribution amps fed by MP3 players. I would like to do away with the MP3 players and go to a computer based system.
Inviato Fri 02 Jun 17 @ 9:35 pm