fmooij
Hi,
Using VDJ pro 7.4.1. and Denon MC 6000 firmware V1.012.
Ripping CD's with MAC program XLD to Apple loss-less.
Setup the options in VDJ to; Limiter on and gain to auto and headroom to 6 db.
Still puzzled by the audio gain results.
When I play a number and look at the audio indicators on the channel 2 or 3 (e.g. VDJ) gf the Denon MC 6000 input signals leds are going up to +10 db.
To me it should be 0 db (the green range), based upon the settings in VDJ.
The headroom 6 db setting reduces the level, but on the output (master), which you control anyway with the master volume level knob.
What I like to see is a reduction in the input level e.g. an option you can select in VDJ Auto gain with a selectable pad of - 4 dB or -6db or -8 db.
Bear in mind when the input is clipping, you can reduce the output (headroom option) whatever you like, but the distortion will remain.
Freek
Using VDJ pro 7.4.1. and Denon MC 6000 firmware V1.012.
Ripping CD's with MAC program XLD to Apple loss-less.
Setup the options in VDJ to; Limiter on and gain to auto and headroom to 6 db.
Still puzzled by the audio gain results.
When I play a number and look at the audio indicators on the channel 2 or 3 (e.g. VDJ) gf the Denon MC 6000 input signals leds are going up to +10 db.
To me it should be 0 db (the green range), based upon the settings in VDJ.
The headroom 6 db setting reduces the level, but on the output (master), which you control anyway with the master volume level knob.
What I like to see is a reduction in the input level e.g. an option you can select in VDJ Auto gain with a selectable pad of - 4 dB or -6db or -8 db.
Bear in mind when the input is clipping, you can reduce the output (headroom option) whatever you like, but the distortion will remain.
Freek
Inviato Mon 09 Dec 13 @ 10:32 am
Dazmax
Hi mate
What you have to bear in mind regarding indicated levels is that the level shown on VDJ's indicators might well show odb as a digital maximum (nothing available above this) the meters on the Denon might well be referenced to the max available analog signal. For pro audio this would be +10db. So the 2 both read correctly but are displaying different things. You can if you want use the Level contol on each input chan of the Denon to adjust the signal level down to 0db but then this might not give you the full output availability to the amplifiers connected to the Denon.
Digital signal indication should never show higher than 0db as this would be a total clip of the signal. Analog equipment frequently operates above 0db safely but this depends totally on what the reference is. The digital signal from VDJ has a fixed maximum limit but the output from an individual controller wil be dependent on what the manufacturer of the equipment has decided to provide and which standard Pro/Semi Pro/Domestic and so on that the equipment is intended to be used with.
Hope that helps
Cheers
Daz
What you have to bear in mind regarding indicated levels is that the level shown on VDJ's indicators might well show odb as a digital maximum (nothing available above this) the meters on the Denon might well be referenced to the max available analog signal. For pro audio this would be +10db. So the 2 both read correctly but are displaying different things. You can if you want use the Level contol on each input chan of the Denon to adjust the signal level down to 0db but then this might not give you the full output availability to the amplifiers connected to the Denon.
Digital signal indication should never show higher than 0db as this would be a total clip of the signal. Analog equipment frequently operates above 0db safely but this depends totally on what the reference is. The digital signal from VDJ has a fixed maximum limit but the output from an individual controller wil be dependent on what the manufacturer of the equipment has decided to provide and which standard Pro/Semi Pro/Domestic and so on that the equipment is intended to be used with.
Hope that helps
Cheers
Daz
Inviato Mon 09 Dec 13 @ 11:57 am
fmooij
That helps!!
So conclusion, I don't have to worry it will clip on the input.
Playing with the headroom and the limiter will assure i won't overdrive the active JBL speakers connected to the MC 6000.
Freek
So conclusion, I don't have to worry it will clip on the input.
Playing with the headroom and the limiter will assure i won't overdrive the active JBL speakers connected to the MC 6000.
Freek
Inviato Wed 11 Dec 13 @ 3:15 am
Dazmax
It is some of the story
The digital output signal cannot clip in the normal sense. If however the origonal recording was clipped, (here we mean that the input level during the recording or copying of a track exceeded the ability of the recorders A-D convertor to acurately represent) no amount of headroom or limiting will make a difference when it is played back. Digital clipping has a very specific sound (like the crack of a whip) You will know as soon as you hear it. Very nasty and highly damaging if speakers are fed with this kind of signal.
The Analog output from your Denon can of course be over driven into clipping by running the levels too high. Analog distortion is less noticable but becoms just as bad if taken to extremes. You can still over drive amps and speakers even if the VDJ signal is limited simply by whacking up the gain or output volume control on your Denon.
Realy the best suggestion here is to set the input controls on your JBL speakers to match a known level from your Denon. IE if you have a clip light on the speakers rear panel set the Denons output level to show say +3dB when the clip light just starts to flash then turn the output down on the Denon until it shows 0dB. As long as you stick to 0dB you can never clip the output or the speakers. (The actual indicated levels you use are not too important as long as you have a reference)
Pre recorded matirial has already gone through a leveling and limiting process so headroom as far as a pre amp is concerned is much less of a wory. There are unlikely to be huge peeks in level as this will already have been delt with. Running with 3dB of headroom is fine with pre recorded music program. The more important concern is Microphone use as this is totaly unlimited and can give you massive leaps in level that will overdrive your system if not kept tightly controled.
I will try to put something together for you to help describe what I am trying to put across. Will try and post this for you tomorow :-D
Daz
The digital output signal cannot clip in the normal sense. If however the origonal recording was clipped, (here we mean that the input level during the recording or copying of a track exceeded the ability of the recorders A-D convertor to acurately represent) no amount of headroom or limiting will make a difference when it is played back. Digital clipping has a very specific sound (like the crack of a whip) You will know as soon as you hear it. Very nasty and highly damaging if speakers are fed with this kind of signal.
The Analog output from your Denon can of course be over driven into clipping by running the levels too high. Analog distortion is less noticable but becoms just as bad if taken to extremes. You can still over drive amps and speakers even if the VDJ signal is limited simply by whacking up the gain or output volume control on your Denon.
Realy the best suggestion here is to set the input controls on your JBL speakers to match a known level from your Denon. IE if you have a clip light on the speakers rear panel set the Denons output level to show say +3dB when the clip light just starts to flash then turn the output down on the Denon until it shows 0dB. As long as you stick to 0dB you can never clip the output or the speakers. (The actual indicated levels you use are not too important as long as you have a reference)
Pre recorded matirial has already gone through a leveling and limiting process so headroom as far as a pre amp is concerned is much less of a wory. There are unlikely to be huge peeks in level as this will already have been delt with. Running with 3dB of headroom is fine with pre recorded music program. The more important concern is Microphone use as this is totaly unlimited and can give you massive leaps in level that will overdrive your system if not kept tightly controled.
I will try to put something together for you to help describe what I am trying to put across. Will try and post this for you tomorow :-D
Daz
Inviato Wed 11 Dec 13 @ 12:10 pm