VDJ Ron
https://peavey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=45854
The above thread provides a lot of information to help you set up and manage a passive speaker system.
In the 90's I used a 80% speaker program power for my amp and became something of an expert repairing speakers with blown drivers...however I do karaoke disco. Over the last 15 years I have used 50% of program power and have not had any driver problems.
The above thread provides a lot of information to help you set up and manage a passive speaker system.
In the 90's I used a 80% speaker program power for my amp and became something of an expert repairing speakers with blown drivers...however I do karaoke disco. Over the last 15 years I have used 50% of program power and have not had any driver problems.
Inviato Fri 05 May 17 @ 8:49 pm
acw_dj
Good tip.
It is usually a good rule to follow to get your AMP RMS power in 5% less (or 10% or more) than your RMX maximum power handle on the passive speakers. So if you have a 260W RMS per channel amp would be good to have 300W (those parameters on the same Ohms values on both sides). This also can apply using THD or Maximum power handle on the AMP specs and the passive speakers specs. You can also use the same values (in Watts) but you may consider to be careful to never go on maximum power (or clipping) to avoid speakers damage.
A fact is that distortion blow speakers more dangerous than using more power on the speaker that the nominal or maximum available. Don't get me wrong, both may blow the speakers, but distortion can do this in less time and even on lower levels.
You may also like to use Active speakers, on where you also need to apply a rule to use your speakers below clipping and maybe in 80% of it's total powr handle as the maximum power you may use... this would allow your speakers to work for more years without troubles.
;-)
It is usually a good rule to follow to get your AMP RMS power in 5% less (or 10% or more) than your RMX maximum power handle on the passive speakers. So if you have a 260W RMS per channel amp would be good to have 300W (those parameters on the same Ohms values on both sides). This also can apply using THD or Maximum power handle on the AMP specs and the passive speakers specs. You can also use the same values (in Watts) but you may consider to be careful to never go on maximum power (or clipping) to avoid speakers damage.
A fact is that distortion blow speakers more dangerous than using more power on the speaker that the nominal or maximum available. Don't get me wrong, both may blow the speakers, but distortion can do this in less time and even on lower levels.
You may also like to use Active speakers, on where you also need to apply a rule to use your speakers below clipping and maybe in 80% of it's total powr handle as the maximum power you may use... this would allow your speakers to work for more years without troubles.
;-)
Inviato Fri 05 May 17 @ 11:29 pm
Djratedxxx919
I do it differently, If I have a 400 rms speaker I use a 800rms Amp so 2 speakers is a 800rmsx2 running my amps at 50%. This rule doesnt apply to hirange only the mid-bass and low drivers. The mids and highs amps can work a little harder and still run cool. so if my mids are 350rms i can run a 500rms set normally at 40 - 70% for both mid and highs. Always the levels change depending on event setting. This one of my mobile set-ups.
Inviato Sat 06 May 17 @ 1:13 am
sureview
Drivers are very reliable if driven correctly, and not stressing the amp is the key
You can easily kill a 500 watt driver with a 25 watt amp
Speakers like a nice waveform, the normal action of the driver is self cooling , the air being pushed around as the voicecoil moves does this, and you can drive them very hard.
But.
As soon as your amp starts to clip its all over..
What is clipping?, basically it's when the amp can't provide enough drive..
Let's assume your amp has a power supply that can prove a peak output voltage of 60v
Now think of a nice sine wave, it 40 v peak to peak, nice rounded top and bottom tonthe waveform
Now we turn the signal up to a level where it need to be 70 volts peak to peak, well the amp can only provide 60, so as the waveform rises and gets to 60 it can't go any higher it maxed out.
Now the waveform has a flat top, this is now dc , then driver cone is pushed out but is not vibrating , the cooling effect is lost and the voice coil heats up.
Of cause this happens in microseconds, so you hear it as distortion
However if you continue to drive into clipping , the voice coil will get hotter, the wax that holds the very fine voicecoil wire will melt and distort , if the voice coil former now contacts magnets, you left with a driver that will never sound good again, eventually the wire will wear or break and then the driver is open circuit
Sorry about the lecture, I do feel if people understand then basics of how things work, it give them much better understanding of potential problems .
So a much bigger amp than the speaker will mean you will never drive it into clipping, however you can still overdrive the speaker..
General rule, buy speakers with an output to suit the venue or SPL you need , and then just as bigron suggests use an amplifier with ample power.
You can easily kill a 500 watt driver with a 25 watt amp
Speakers like a nice waveform, the normal action of the driver is self cooling , the air being pushed around as the voicecoil moves does this, and you can drive them very hard.
But.
As soon as your amp starts to clip its all over..
What is clipping?, basically it's when the amp can't provide enough drive..
Let's assume your amp has a power supply that can prove a peak output voltage of 60v
Now think of a nice sine wave, it 40 v peak to peak, nice rounded top and bottom tonthe waveform
Now we turn the signal up to a level where it need to be 70 volts peak to peak, well the amp can only provide 60, so as the waveform rises and gets to 60 it can't go any higher it maxed out.
Now the waveform has a flat top, this is now dc , then driver cone is pushed out but is not vibrating , the cooling effect is lost and the voice coil heats up.
Of cause this happens in microseconds, so you hear it as distortion
However if you continue to drive into clipping , the voice coil will get hotter, the wax that holds the very fine voicecoil wire will melt and distort , if the voice coil former now contacts magnets, you left with a driver that will never sound good again, eventually the wire will wear or break and then the driver is open circuit
Sorry about the lecture, I do feel if people understand then basics of how things work, it give them much better understanding of potential problems .
So a much bigger amp than the speaker will mean you will never drive it into clipping, however you can still overdrive the speaker..
General rule, buy speakers with an output to suit the venue or SPL you need , and then just as bigron suggests use an amplifier with ample power.
Inviato Sat 06 May 17 @ 5:47 am
VDJ Ron
Here is another comment from an expert, on this occasion Mr McGregor an engineer and the owner of McGregor Amplifiction. It raises the size of the speaker as a factor.
Quote: "800wrms is too much for a 12" 500wrms speaker."
I did not ask if that also applied to a 15" speaker.
Note: speaker technology is improving, for example Peavey have got some very powerful but expensive drivers..much more than 500wrms.
Quote: "800wrms is too much for a 12" 500wrms speaker."
I did not ask if that also applied to a 15" speaker.
Note: speaker technology is improving, for example Peavey have got some very powerful but expensive drivers..much more than 500wrms.
Inviato Sat 06 May 17 @ 11:36 am
Adion
sureview wrote :
As soon as your amp starts to clip its all over..
For a single driver I would think clipping should not be that much of a problem.
Even the clipped signal will still be alternating at least at the lowest frequency, so for low-frequency drivers that shouldn't be a problem.
The biggest problem with clipping as far as I know is in combination with multiple drivers and a passive cross-over.
In this case the problem is not the total power (say the total power output power of the clipped signal is 200wrms, and the speaker is also rated for 200wrms), but the distribution. The rated speaker handling power would be given a normal distribution of low and high frequencies for music.
Clipping would basically causes harmonics at higher frequencies, so the distribution of power shifts from the woofer to the tweeters, which then get more power than they can handle.
Inviato Sat 06 May 17 @ 11:48 am
VDJ Ron
The voice coil in a speaker is a little like an electric fire..it can glow red hot. Anyway it strikes me that the only place for the heat to drain away is the speaker magnet. So heavy driving for a long period of time will increase the temperature in the area of the voice coil. Hence running a speaker flat out for a couple of hours is more likely to burn out a or distort a voice coil than a short spell flat out. Another factor?
..and musicians normally only do two 45min spots whereas a DJ can be running flat out for much much longer. What's good for a musician may not be good for a DJ.
Adion Peavey fit a car light bulb to adsorb this "clipping" energy..prior to this their compression drivers were always blowing.
..and musicians normally only do two 45min spots whereas a DJ can be running flat out for much much longer. What's good for a musician may not be good for a DJ.
Adion Peavey fit a car light bulb to adsorb this "clipping" energy..prior to this their compression drivers were always blowing.
Inviato Sat 06 May 17 @ 12:37 pm
sureview
Adion wrote :
For a single driver I would think clipping should not be that much of a problem.
Even the clipped signal will still be alternating at least at the lowest frequency, so for low-frequency drivers that shouldn't be a problem.
The biggest problem with clipping as far as I know is in combination with multiple drivers and a passive cross-over.
In this case the problem is not the total power (say the total power output power of the clipped signal is 200wrms, and the speaker is also rated for 200wrms), but the distribution. The rated speaker handling power would be given a normal distribution of low and high frequencies for music.
Clipping would basically causes harmonics at higher frequencies, so the distribution of power shifts from the woofer to the tweeters, which then get more power than they can handle.
sureview wrote :
As soon as your amp starts to clip its all over..
For a single driver I would think clipping should not be that much of a problem.
Even the clipped signal will still be alternating at least at the lowest frequency, so for low-frequency drivers that shouldn't be a problem.
The biggest problem with clipping as far as I know is in combination with multiple drivers and a passive cross-over.
In this case the problem is not the total power (say the total power output power of the clipped signal is 200wrms, and the speaker is also rated for 200wrms), but the distribution. The rated speaker handling power would be given a normal distribution of low and high frequencies for music.
Clipping would basically causes harmonics at higher frequencies, so the distribution of power shifts from the woofer to the tweeters, which then get more power than they can handle.
Erm no
Clipping is dc going to the speaker, and it kills voice coils, this is fact , which driver it kills first may dependent of what the program material is, the dc will heat the voice coil but the other signals also contribute
Inviato Tue 09 May 17 @ 6:36 am
Mobile Zombie
Clipping is both "DC" and harmonics. it's a combination of both.
The "DC" part of the waveform (clipped peaks) generates a lot of heat, but on the other hand, the harmonics associated with the clipping waveform is generally higher up in frequency where the driver impedance has rise and often not cause very high currents.
The "DC" part of the waveform (clipped peaks) generates a lot of heat, but on the other hand, the harmonics associated with the clipping waveform is generally higher up in frequency where the driver impedance has rise and often not cause very high currents.
Inviato Tue 09 May 17 @ 6:42 am
sureview
Clipping is dc on the output , dc has no harmonics, dc is bad for speakers , in a normal setup your amp should never clip, the warming light is there for a reason!
Inviato Wed 10 May 17 @ 6:24 am
Mobile Zombie
sureview wrote :
Clipping is dc on the output , dc has no harmonics, dc is bad for speakers , in a normal setup your amp should never clip, the warming light is there for a reason!
Of course clipping has harmonics. How do you think a distortion pedal for guitars work? By introducing higher dv/dt you will get harmonics superimposed on the fundamental frequency. An amplifier driven into clipping will be linear all the way between the pos and neg clipping, as it's only the tops which will be clipped.
To achieve DC without harmonics on the output you have to have a failed output stage putting one of the amp rail across the output. And this is taken care of by dc protection on the majority of amps.
Inviato Wed 10 May 17 @ 8:13 am