groovindj
whatsurbucket wrote :
with no master for ableton to read from it is a pain in the A$$
Er... you could always Rewire VDJ and Ableton Live.
Last time I tried, it worked.
Inviato Mon 13 Jun 11 @ 11:45 am
the SOUND INSURGENT
Well VDJ works great using it with Reason5 as a master. To me it seems like you want VDJ to be ran as a slave and have Ableton as the master not so much a vst.........I don't think that's ever gonna happen but who knows..........
Huey
Huey
Inviato Mon 13 Jun 11 @ 11:46 am
groovindj
Agreed - with the way VDJ works, it's impractical.
Consider that at present VDJ is (in basic terms) an MP3 player. When it loads a track, it does a quick analysis and creates a beat grid.
That beat grid timing info is what gets sent out to the Rewire slave, so that it can sync.
Now reverse the situation.
If VDJ was able to receive sync from somewhere else, how is it going to match up a track playing in a deck to that signal?
Real time warping?!
Even the 'king of warping' Ableton Live doesn't do that. Tracks have to be warped to the master tempo first (when they're loaded).
Consider that at present VDJ is (in basic terms) an MP3 player. When it loads a track, it does a quick analysis and creates a beat grid.
That beat grid timing info is what gets sent out to the Rewire slave, so that it can sync.
Now reverse the situation.
If VDJ was able to receive sync from somewhere else, how is it going to match up a track playing in a deck to that signal?
Real time warping?!
Even the 'king of warping' Ableton Live doesn't do that. Tracks have to be warped to the master tempo first (when they're loaded).
Inviato Tue 14 Jun 11 @ 8:25 am
whatsurbucket
while I understand what you both are saying, Deckadance does the same thing in MOST cases (please no comparison posts I already know the differences I own all the damn DVS systems right now), Deckadance can be stand alone and a vst inside ableton. I own the whole friggin suite so I am not about to learn another DAW. I really do understand about Virtual DJ's amazing warping and gridding. I also understand that Ableton is extremely versitle. Using Beatbreakers cd example virtual dj would do its job as is playing music analyzing and so forth but inside Ableton so that there is no need to rewire. No need to bridge it, no need for virtual audio cables. ABleton does have the ability to run off of other midi clocks. Yes inside Ableton the master would be Ableton but Damn it if Atomix is going to spend the time adding a REAL midi clock inside Virtual DJ why not spend the extra week to make it cross compatable. Deckadance is a very simple design and in no way is comparable to VDJ but..... it has a midi clock send and it can be a VST. If they ever got off their asses and listened to their customers they might actually be dangerous someday then again if Serato did the same thing with Itch crap I think I hear hell freezing over! lol
thanks again
thanks again
Inviato Tue 14 Jun 11 @ 1:42 pm
whatsurbucket
rewire with ableton just does not work with my computer or any of the other 4 I have tried in my studio. it always always ALWAYS falls behind virual dj's tracks. I have fiddled with master track delay and all other track delays until I am blue in the face. I know look like papa smurf (:p). This is another reason I would love to see VDJ go VST as an option. I have heard a thousand times that VDJ will bow to no other program as a host but, is this just pride? I would and do use the vst competitor in ableton permanently except I love VDJ and I love my NS6.
I just strongly feel that if someone could at least tell me, other than go get the DAW that works flawlessly in rewire, we are going to fix it or there will be a flawless solution soon. I would rest easy. I already spent way too much in ableton suite 8 and max for live and all my kick ass plug ins like slylenth stutter edit and avox series and condensor yeti mics to swith to someone else because I am being told VDJ doesn't want to play nice.
Anyone have a solution or suggestion? Mods do you guys know anything I am missing? I know I am coming off as a jerk but some people really do take this seriously. I hate itch but if they ever ,in like 30 years do make bridge work for ableton I am going to be home sick for VDJ. I unfortunately use, rely and love my ableton more.
thanks and please chime in.
I just strongly feel that if someone could at least tell me, other than go get the DAW that works flawlessly in rewire, we are going to fix it or there will be a flawless solution soon. I would rest easy. I already spent way too much in ableton suite 8 and max for live and all my kick ass plug ins like slylenth stutter edit and avox series and condensor yeti mics to swith to someone else because I am being told VDJ doesn't want to play nice.
Anyone have a solution or suggestion? Mods do you guys know anything I am missing? I know I am coming off as a jerk but some people really do take this seriously. I hate itch but if they ever ,in like 30 years do make bridge work for ableton I am going to be home sick for VDJ. I unfortunately use, rely and love my ableton more.
thanks and please chime in.
Inviato Sun 19 Jun 11 @ 9:39 pm
SBDJ
Personally I can't see VDJ becoming a VST plugin. This shouldn't be taken as an official statement since I don't work for Atomix and have no idea as to their roadmap - I just don't see it personally.
I'm not aware of the issues you are having with rewire though - can you describe in detail and I'll have a play?
I'm not aware of the issues you are having with rewire though - can you describe in detail and I'll have a play?
Inviato Mon 20 Jun 11 @ 6:03 am
groovindj
@whatsurbucket, you say you understand what we're saying - and yet you still keep going on!
If you understood the issues then you'd see how tough it would be to slave a full length MP3 to a clock without warping it first.
If Deckadance being a VST is so fantastic, how come it's not 'top of the tree' in DJ software?
How come Ableton teamed up with Serato and not the Deckadance guys?
And talking of The Bridge, you realise that Live slaves to the track in Scratch and not the other way around, right?
Now why do you suppose these two industry giants did it that way around??????
Think about it.....
If you understood the issues then you'd see how tough it would be to slave a full length MP3 to a clock without warping it first.
If Deckadance being a VST is so fantastic, how come it's not 'top of the tree' in DJ software?
How come Ableton teamed up with Serato and not the Deckadance guys?
And talking of The Bridge, you realise that Live slaves to the track in Scratch and not the other way around, right?
Now why do you suppose these two industry giants did it that way around??????
Think about it.....
Inviato Tue 21 Jun 11 @ 6:51 am
whatsurbucket
1st SBDJ... the issue I am having is unless I set deck 4 as master and deck 4 is ableton deck 4 loses time with VDJ decks playing. another words i can play 1 identical song in deck one and in ableton at the exact same time. ableton in deck 4 falls behind when deck one is the master. If I make deck 4 the master VDJ keeps time but none the less it is all actually falling behind. So when I adjust the track delay in ableton MAster or individual to try to keep real time it either still falls behind at a slower rate or it speeds up. I cannot find the sweet spot to lock the two in rewire.
As for Groovydj. Yes I keep insisting. Deckadance is not one of the top programs because it is not widely known. Regardless of its popularity it does everything it is supposed to warp a track instantly and get key and bpm and match it with live. Yes in a vst mode it is a slave to abletons clock. Gosh that would be terrible wouldn't it. as for ableton working with serato. . . lets see Serato claimed a heavy stake of the digital dj population when it first started. Serato just had a better push on the subject. So then is it a completely new DVs that still hasn't reached a 2.0 in thier versions thought to make its DVS stand alone and a vst? I am not saying that VDJ is incapable at all. I am saying the complete opposite. They brought rewire great works for some DAWs perfect and not so great for others. They plan on making a midi clock actually work soon GREAT! The whole point to this thread is to say exactly what I have said at the beginning. If VDJ would overhaul the darn sampler and give us a true midi clock so REWIRE works perfect then the VST issue is moot. Isn't it? So instead of saying I keep going take the time to actually read what's going on. The point was begging the question to Dj's to say yes or no that they would like to see VDJ with a better sampler like say Traktors set up but without all the confusion of thiers and the ability to truly work with a DAW. VST was to me a simple solution to NOT having to OVERHAUL the sampler and NOT having to work around the midi clock issue. I am not a programmer and I am not hardware specialist. I do not know if changing some code to make it a vst is just a simple rewrite of communication in the program or completely deconstructing and reconstructing an already kick ass program.
I do know that the tech guys work their a$$es off and I do know that Virtual Dj only has a matter of time before it two will be officially sanctioned as a permittable DVS in the DMC compititions like Serato is right now. I own Itch, Traktor, VDJ and Deckadance. I am not a big fan of most of the ones I listed for different reasons. I persist because I know VDJ will and can fix these small issues to make it the best DVS system around no questions asked. I persist because I know that a true record sampler and a friggin clock in the program are important to me. If I am truly the only person that wants a better sampler and a better way to work with our DAW's without having to use third party virtual cables and sound cards from one to the other and spending money and time an crap that can be addressed by a company that I love and paid money to so that I can be the best I can be then why not insist?
As for Groovydj. Yes I keep insisting. Deckadance is not one of the top programs because it is not widely known. Regardless of its popularity it does everything it is supposed to warp a track instantly and get key and bpm and match it with live. Yes in a vst mode it is a slave to abletons clock. Gosh that would be terrible wouldn't it. as for ableton working with serato. . . lets see Serato claimed a heavy stake of the digital dj population when it first started. Serato just had a better push on the subject. So then is it a completely new DVs that still hasn't reached a 2.0 in thier versions thought to make its DVS stand alone and a vst? I am not saying that VDJ is incapable at all. I am saying the complete opposite. They brought rewire great works for some DAWs perfect and not so great for others. They plan on making a midi clock actually work soon GREAT! The whole point to this thread is to say exactly what I have said at the beginning. If VDJ would overhaul the darn sampler and give us a true midi clock so REWIRE works perfect then the VST issue is moot. Isn't it? So instead of saying I keep going take the time to actually read what's going on. The point was begging the question to Dj's to say yes or no that they would like to see VDJ with a better sampler like say Traktors set up but without all the confusion of thiers and the ability to truly work with a DAW. VST was to me a simple solution to NOT having to OVERHAUL the sampler and NOT having to work around the midi clock issue. I am not a programmer and I am not hardware specialist. I do not know if changing some code to make it a vst is just a simple rewrite of communication in the program or completely deconstructing and reconstructing an already kick ass program.
I do know that the tech guys work their a$$es off and I do know that Virtual Dj only has a matter of time before it two will be officially sanctioned as a permittable DVS in the DMC compititions like Serato is right now. I own Itch, Traktor, VDJ and Deckadance. I am not a big fan of most of the ones I listed for different reasons. I persist because I know VDJ will and can fix these small issues to make it the best DVS system around no questions asked. I persist because I know that a true record sampler and a friggin clock in the program are important to me. If I am truly the only person that wants a better sampler and a better way to work with our DAW's without having to use third party virtual cables and sound cards from one to the other and spending money and time an crap that can be addressed by a company that I love and paid money to so that I can be the best I can be then why not insist?
Inviato Wed 22 Jun 11 @ 3:14 pm
SBDJ
You paid your money for the existing feature set.
By all means request; you cannot insist however.
By all means request; you cannot insist however.
Inviato Wed 22 Jun 11 @ 3:25 pm
hippydog
whatsurbucket wrote :
I cannot believe 70 reads and no one wants to see VDJ as a VST or with a better sampler? please guys If you agree post a simple yes to this thread.
hippydog wrote :
instead of getting all technically with multiple acronymes, how about giving us a real world step-by-step of would you would like to do (musically wise), and how you do it now, VS what having VST would make possible..
instead of getting all technically with multiple acronymes, how about giving us a real world step-by-step of would you would like to do (musically wise), and how you do it now, VS what having VST would make possible..
whatsurbucket wrote :
Having the Virtual DJ inside a Ableton as a VST would eliminate the need for max for live and the bridge as serato has done it to work with ableton flawlessly.
Virtualdj inside of Ableton would give us the ability to spin as we always have but also the possability of doing a Dj Earworm type set with less problems and with more control as we would have the ability to scratch. Right now I use virtual dj and one sound card into my 12 channel mixer and ableton from another sound card into the same mixer and match by ear. but with no master for ableton to read from it is a pain in the A$$ to say the least.
Does that help?
Having the Virtual DJ inside a Ableton as a VST would eliminate the need for max for live and the bridge as serato has done it to work with ableton flawlessly.
Virtualdj inside of Ableton would give us the ability to spin as we always have but also the possability of doing a Dj Earworm type set with less problems and with more control as we would have the ability to scratch. Right now I use virtual dj and one sound card into my 12 channel mixer and ableton from another sound card into the same mixer and match by ear. but with no master for ableton to read from it is a pain in the A$$ to say the least.
Does that help?
actually.. sorry.. it doesnt help.. I have only lightly played with Ableton, and never heard of "max for live", nor have I used serato..
about the only thing that kinda made sense to me was the "DJ Earworm type set, & we would have the ability to scratch"..
If I understand you correctly, does that mean your looking for the ability to Real Time have the music warped so the beat & song is always a consistant tempo and pitch?
To be honest, I'm not interested in the whole VST, and midi clock thing.. I dont do that, so it would be like explaining to a brick wall..
What I AM interested in is what your trying to accomplish.. IE: your end result.. your end product, etc
thanx
Inviato Thu 23 Jun 11 @ 4:50 pm
whatsurbucket
To SBDJ - you are correct on all accounts. Sorry got a little carried away with words thay rhyme with insist. Lol but yes I did pay for exaisting software. The price however does include lifetime updates. That is why I am expressing my wish in this thread. But it is clear to me that perhaps I am on a sinking boat without a paddle in $hits creek. Ps I explained my rewire issue of time delay anyone find or know of a fix to it? Any threads to guide me to?
HIPPYDOG - basically what I am trying to do is rid myself of duplicate hardware that my software is supposed to do. I am not big on recording stuff so I never ever really play the same set twice even if the list is the same songs I use my ableron as a drum machine. Syth. Effects like stutter edit. Beat box and voice over. And a super sampler and hot cue to virtual dj. So I have my song thay I love to scratch too I have my other deck with the same song on hot cues I then have ableton set up for complex warp for all my clips so it will match key to whats playing I have crap loads of fun piano or vocal loops or one shots and then I have my wobble bass operator and my stutter edit on different channels.
I take my requests about an hour before I start figure my set from their and then just play lile I am going win a fiddle of gold. Priblem is at times latency and rewire drifts badly so even when I am playing on beat it geta off beat. So I am a big fat train wreck if I don't spend my time nudgi.g stuff. I think I nudge so gs more than I nudge my wife lately :)
Looking at it all I would love a vst but in reality I guess I would just love a perfect rewire to work...
Thanks guys for the great and challenging responses.
Please keep them up
if anyone knows how to help me out with this issue or would like to suggest a wish feature by all means chime in. Sorry for any errors I write these on my phone while in the "office".
HIPPYDOG - basically what I am trying to do is rid myself of duplicate hardware that my software is supposed to do. I am not big on recording stuff so I never ever really play the same set twice even if the list is the same songs I use my ableron as a drum machine. Syth. Effects like stutter edit. Beat box and voice over. And a super sampler and hot cue to virtual dj. So I have my song thay I love to scratch too I have my other deck with the same song on hot cues I then have ableton set up for complex warp for all my clips so it will match key to whats playing I have crap loads of fun piano or vocal loops or one shots and then I have my wobble bass operator and my stutter edit on different channels.
I take my requests about an hour before I start figure my set from their and then just play lile I am going win a fiddle of gold. Priblem is at times latency and rewire drifts badly so even when I am playing on beat it geta off beat. So I am a big fat train wreck if I don't spend my time nudgi.g stuff. I think I nudge so gs more than I nudge my wife lately :)
Looking at it all I would love a vst but in reality I guess I would just love a perfect rewire to work...
Thanks guys for the great and challenging responses.
Please keep them up
if anyone knows how to help me out with this issue or would like to suggest a wish feature by all means chime in. Sorry for any errors I write these on my phone while in the "office".
Inviato Thu 23 Jun 11 @ 9:06 pm
hippydog
since you now have access to 99 decks.. bout the only thing that you dont have access to with VDJ is automatic song warping (steady bpm)
and a drum machine..
The rest of what you mentioned can be done directly in VDJ.
and a drum machine..
The rest of what you mentioned can be done directly in VDJ.
Inviato Fri 24 Jun 11 @ 11:46 am
whatsurbucket
That's probably true but how the heck would I keep track of all those decks and effcts when the effects page only shoe deck 1 and 2 effects and the skins page effect only shows 1 at a time... and there is still instruments missing
Inviato Fri 24 Jun 11 @ 1:41 pm
piwpiw
hmmmmmm....
Inviato Fri 24 Jun 11 @ 9:48 pm
groovindj
whatsurbucket - forgive me for not trawling back through the entire thread to see if it's mentioned - but....
The tracks that youre playing in VDJ. Are they warped? i.e. have you processed them in Ableton Live to have a steady tempo?
If not, then this could be why you're experiencing 'drift'. The tempo info that VDJ sends out to the Rewire slave is only as good as the CBG.
If that CBG is not 100% on the money and locked to the track, then Live is going to drift - except it's not really drifting, it's just following an incorrect CBG.
The tracks that youre playing in VDJ. Are they warped? i.e. have you processed them in Ableton Live to have a steady tempo?
If not, then this could be why you're experiencing 'drift'. The tempo info that VDJ sends out to the Rewire slave is only as good as the CBG.
If that CBG is not 100% on the money and locked to the track, then Live is going to drift - except it's not really drifting, it's just following an incorrect CBG.
Inviato Sat 25 Jun 11 @ 12:39 pm
whatsurbucket
Groovindj. To be honest I really didn't think I had to warp two identical songs one playing on vdj and one playing on live. What would be the best way to approach warping my songs?it almost seems like I should just be djing in strictly ableton from everything I am reading. But I don't want too I bought my ns6 and apc 40 to work together and ironically they can't in rewire anyway lol. Thanks for getting back to me!
Inviato Sun 26 Jun 11 @ 6:58 pm
SBDJ
The track will have been warped in live, and so I guess live will be trying to match it's warped track to the CBG grid in VDJ. So when you're playing the same track on both at the same time unless both are spot on they won't sit exactly in time?
Ableton is trying to match what it thinks is the tracks (flexible) grid to what VDJ thinks is the tracks (fixed) grid.
Personally I only use Ableton via rewire for loops and samples.
Ableton is trying to match what it thinks is the tracks (flexible) grid to what VDJ thinks is the tracks (fixed) grid.
Personally I only use Ableton via rewire for loops and samples.
Inviato Sun 26 Jun 11 @ 8:51 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
I'm not so sure about that. I've made basic 4x4 drum loops in reason and exported as tracks and I've played them in VDJ, the grid is perfect, yet when I play that same loop as a slave through VDJ it tends to drift. I find myself pitch bending all the time. To me it seems the grid is causing my problem. Even when using the sampler I wish the grid could be shut off so I Co an manually sync the playing sample. Cause as we all know the grid isn't always right and with older music there's really no way of using the sampler with those tracks unless your always hitting the beat tap button, resetting the anchor.
Track warping and sampler love is all I need, lol!
Huey
Track warping and sampler love is all I need, lol!
Huey
Inviato Mon 27 Jun 11 @ 12:04 am
SBDJ
Can't say I'd noticed, I'll have a look though. Haven't been able to use Ableton rewire for a while now due to an issue with my computer.
Inviato Mon 27 Jun 11 @ 10:01 am
whatsurbucket
Beatbreaker1 the problem your having is the same I am having. I stopped using the sampler for that ver same reason and went to rewire and its worse.... I took the advice and warped two different and generic songs sexy bitch and yeah still lost time with vdj. It was of no significance at all. I actually nudge less when I use both by ear but I don't get paid enough to work thay hard for four to 6 hours..... so then I put my vote in for midi clock and better sampler I undwrstand the vst thing I'll drop it and click my ruby. Slippers I found my ex-wife wearing when a house droppwd on her. Relax she still alive...lol
Inviato Mon 27 Jun 11 @ 7:07 pm
