Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
Truth is somewhere between the current war of words going in here.. both of you are right, and both of you are right at a SEGMENT of the market.
CQ is right for the club dj, hiphop djs, profiled djs, and all the wanna-be's that follows them (LOTS!)
Such dj follows the hype, the trend, whats used by other djs that they look up to etc. They look at their favorite djs, buy DJ magazines, read Pro DJ Forums and so on..
Rick is right for the pub dj market, the mobile djs, wedding djs. They talk in forums like VDJ forum, and mobile dj forums, and word spread by mouth.
And although Nike might not have been the best example, CocaCola and Pepsi dont sponsor huge artists, events and so on, if it didnt matter;)
IMAGE SELLS! STARS USING IT SELLS! PUBLISITY SELLS.. ;)
And as far as SSL being for scratchers only, thats defo wrong. Most club djs I know have SSL, and they dont scratch at all.. They are my friends, and not even I could sell them VDJ, cause they want what the other cool djs have.
Star djs like SASHA use SSL, defo not a scratch dj;) Clubber dj king
And LOTS more : http://www.scratchlive.net/djs/
Its not like its Jazzy Jeff who made SSL sucsess by himself.. its him and all the rest of the stars that made it WELL known, and that gave SSL a HUGE credibility boost. People buy, play and look up to these producers and DJs, and OF COURSE they want to check out and use what the top djs are using ;)
Goes for club managers too.
At least that is 100% accurate for club djs, resident djs, of ANY genre ;)
And dont forget that the thousands by thousands of bedroom djs that looks up to them..
And what what they got. That be Pioneer CDJs, Technics 1200's or SSL...
Thats just how the world works ;)
That being said, SSL stronges position is definitively at hiphop turntablist djs..
CQ is right for the club dj, hiphop djs, profiled djs, and all the wanna-be's that follows them (LOTS!)
Such dj follows the hype, the trend, whats used by other djs that they look up to etc. They look at their favorite djs, buy DJ magazines, read Pro DJ Forums and so on..
Rick is right for the pub dj market, the mobile djs, wedding djs. They talk in forums like VDJ forum, and mobile dj forums, and word spread by mouth.
And although Nike might not have been the best example, CocaCola and Pepsi dont sponsor huge artists, events and so on, if it didnt matter;)
IMAGE SELLS! STARS USING IT SELLS! PUBLISITY SELLS.. ;)
And as far as SSL being for scratchers only, thats defo wrong. Most club djs I know have SSL, and they dont scratch at all.. They are my friends, and not even I could sell them VDJ, cause they want what the other cool djs have.
Star djs like SASHA use SSL, defo not a scratch dj;) Clubber dj king
And LOTS more : http://www.scratchlive.net/djs/
Its not like its Jazzy Jeff who made SSL sucsess by himself.. its him and all the rest of the stars that made it WELL known, and that gave SSL a HUGE credibility boost. People buy, play and look up to these producers and DJs, and OF COURSE they want to check out and use what the top djs are using ;)
Goes for club managers too.
At least that is 100% accurate for club djs, resident djs, of ANY genre ;)
And dont forget that the thousands by thousands of bedroom djs that looks up to them..
And what what they got. That be Pioneer CDJs, Technics 1200's or SSL...
Thats just how the world works ;)
That being said, SSL stronges position is definitively at hiphop turntablist djs..
Inviato Tue 13 Mar 07 @ 7:31 pm
ConQuest
Fair enough norway.
Well said. =)
Well said. =)
Inviato Tue 13 Mar 07 @ 7:38 pm
ConQuest
Oh, but yes, these Nike sposored guys have a just a little bit of credibility and influence on the entire basketball industry, internationally, and at ALL levels:
http://www.nike.com/nikebasketball/usa/index.jhtml?l=force,secondcoming&locale=us_en#force,secondcoming
Of course everyone wears sneakers, but if that excuse were enough, why sponsor all of those guys?
If it were bad business, Nike wouldn't spend the money on multi-million dollar contracts on each of these guys.
A picture, and a picture with your product, is worth a thousand words.
BTW, I hate Nike. I'm an Adidas guy myself. =)
http://www.nike.com/nikebasketball/usa/index.jhtml?l=force,secondcoming&locale=us_en#force,secondcoming
Of course everyone wears sneakers, but if that excuse were enough, why sponsor all of those guys?
If it were bad business, Nike wouldn't spend the money on multi-million dollar contracts on each of these guys.
A picture, and a picture with your product, is worth a thousand words.
BTW, I hate Nike. I'm an Adidas guy myself. =)
Inviato Tue 13 Mar 07 @ 8:03 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
Branding matters.. and using stars to help the brand name matters.. More than most would admitt;)
I work with advertisement EVERY day of the week, and companies spend LOTS of money on it.
It matter so much that you might even end up as a lojal customer, hating the competitors..
Like Mac users, or Adidas sneaker guys ;) ring a bell ? hehe
"my Adidas" with Run DMC made the WHOLE WORLD wear Adidas for a while.. Talk about GOLD promo ;)
Inviato Tue 13 Mar 07 @ 8:33 pm
ConQuest
dj-in-norway wrote :
It matter so much that you might even end up as a lojal customer, hating the competitors..
Like Mac users, or Adidas sneaker guys ;) ring a bell ? hehe
Like Mac users, or Adidas sneaker guys ;) ring a bell ? hehe
I have NO idea who you're talking about. ;)
dj-in-norway wrote :
"my Adidas" with Run DMC made the WHOLE WORLD wear Adidas for a while.. Talk about GOLD promo ;)
Which in large part is why I'm pro-Adidas. Because of the long standing relationship between Adidas and the Hip-Hop community.
The Nike sweatshop issue pusshed me completely away from them.
Inviato Tue 13 Mar 07 @ 9:35 pm
Charlie Five
Branding definitely matters to me. When I go to a bar/nightclub and see a high profile DJ like DJ AM using a MAC with SSL I believe in the product. Thats what made me finally buy Serato. I still rarely use it (as I'm so used to my CDJ's with a few records here and there) but everyone uses it in Chicago (est. 90% with MAC's). Ive seen VDJ being used at one place, a spot called Deja Vu. No one was behind the decks, they just used it to play videos with no DJ.
There is definitely an "Industry Standard" in DJ equipment. Pioneer CD decks...Tech 12's...ect...SSL is the "Industry Standard" for mp3 DJ's. Will VDJ be the Standard for Music Video DJ's when more places adapt to videos? Hopefully....Cause im banking on it. When MAC drops of course.
There is definitely an "Industry Standard" in DJ equipment. Pioneer CD decks...Tech 12's...ect...SSL is the "Industry Standard" for mp3 DJ's. Will VDJ be the Standard for Music Video DJ's when more places adapt to videos? Hopefully....Cause im banking on it. When MAC drops of course.
Inviato Wed 14 Mar 07 @ 10:42 pm
ConQuest
Good post C5! =)
We gotta make people understand that ALL promotion is necessary at ALL levels at this point to ensure Atomix/Numark's VDJ/VV products broad adoption as quickly as possible, in as many areas as possible, and to ALL demographics.
From the bedroom/hobbist, to mobile/club resident, club/radio circuit, touring showcase/battle, and overall music industry turntablists and dj's.
We gotta make people understand that ALL promotion is necessary at ALL levels at this point to ensure Atomix/Numark's VDJ/VV products broad adoption as quickly as possible, in as many areas as possible, and to ALL demographics.
From the bedroom/hobbist, to mobile/club resident, club/radio circuit, touring showcase/battle, and overall music industry turntablists and dj's.
Inviato Wed 14 Mar 07 @ 11:05 pm
dami2550
I doubt it's going to happen anytime soon, simply because there's plenty of alternatives by big names like M-audio (TORQ) or NI Traktor out. People simply don't know VDJ name and if you'd tell them to check it out, all they see in default skin is some fisher-price grade product with pretty turntables and low screen res and not customizable at all.
I mean literally, take a look at Traktor or Torq and VDJ out of the box.
On top of it there's plenty of hardware (MIDI controllers) which work with Traktor and M-Audio has 2 or 3 controllers for Torq, meanwhile the most known controller for VDJ is Hercules DJ Console. Not that it's a bad controller, but feels cheap and the whole price is what, $250? Pros who look at that say it's too cheap to be a good quality stable product. And in many cases they're right, look at PC complaints about instability.
I'm only sticking with VDJ for time being because I started out with it and I'm used to it so much. However due to lack of support of Xone 3D and and other issues I had I'm moving away from it to Ableton Live.
Let's keep it real. Some products are going to pick up, some won't. I'll be really surprised if this one takes off
I mean literally, take a look at Traktor or Torq and VDJ out of the box.
On top of it there's plenty of hardware (MIDI controllers) which work with Traktor and M-Audio has 2 or 3 controllers for Torq, meanwhile the most known controller for VDJ is Hercules DJ Console. Not that it's a bad controller, but feels cheap and the whole price is what, $250? Pros who look at that say it's too cheap to be a good quality stable product. And in many cases they're right, look at PC complaints about instability.
I'm only sticking with VDJ for time being because I started out with it and I'm used to it so much. However due to lack of support of Xone 3D and and other issues I had I'm moving away from it to Ableton Live.
Let's keep it real. Some products are going to pick up, some won't. I'll be really surprised if this one takes off
Inviato Fri 16 Mar 07 @ 7:05 pm
ConQuest
dami2550 wrote :
I doubt it's going to happen anytime soon, simply because there's plenty of alternatives by big names like M-audio (TORQ) or NI Traktor out.
M-Audio is audio only. I'm a former Final Scratch/NI Traktor user and a lot happier with VDJ. Again, FS is audio only.
You're not factoring the main benefit of visual mikxing. THAT is what separates from the competition now that VDJ/VV's TCV capabilities are a good as them and SSL.
dami2550 wrote :
People simply don't know VDJ name and if you'd tell them to check it out, all they see in default skin is some fisher-price grade product with pretty turntables and low screen res and not customizable at all.
I mean literally, take a look at Traktor or Torq and VDJ out of the box.
I mean literally, take a look at Traktor or Torq and VDJ out of the box.
Wow. are you serious? VDJ's more customizable than either! The SDK's are freely availble and there are lots of skins, audio and video effects, and plug-ins avaiiable. Go to Downloads/Plugins at the top of the page.
Haven't messed with Torq, but I don't know what customizabilty yuo're talking about with NI Traktor, but it's nothing compared to VDJ.
I couldn't disagree more about the "Fisher-Price" loook now, and I used to comment using that same description for version 3.x. The default skin was a horrid eye sore that I was embarassed to show my turntablist partners and friends, but all that changed with VDJ version 4 that came out last August and is the interface for Numarkm Virtual Vinyl.
VDJ 4 is a lot classier, cleaner, and nicely layed out now than it's previous versions, and I like it better than SSL's "rainbow of color" waveform represention and NI Traktor has no advantages now either in either interface, customizability, and epecially functionality.
Again, I haven't played with Torq, but no visual and video mixing? Forget it.
dami2550 wrote :
On top of it there's plenty of hardware (MIDI controllers) which work with Traktor and M-Audio has 2 or 3 controllers for Torq, meanwhile the most known controller for VDJ is Hercules DJ Console.
VDJ supports all midi controllers as well. The fact that the Hercules controller is the most "known" is irrelevant if doesn't mean that it's the only one, and it's not.
dami2550 wrote :
Not that it's a bad controller, but feels cheap and the whole price is what, $250? Pros who look at that say it's too cheap to be a good quality stable product. And in many cases they're right, look at PC complaints about instability.
I agree that the Hercules controller looks cheap and I was hesitant to get it at first because of that and the low price. However, I've been completely stisfied with it for almost a year now and have had NO instability issues due to the controller stuff.
The only problems I've had very few times (less than 5) with VDJ using the Hercules controller on windows where all attributed to typical windows OS failures. Otherwise, the software and controller have perfromed admirably.
You are ABSOLUTELY correct about the observation that "Pros who look at that say it's too cheap to be a good quality stable product." in reference to both the controller and VDJ. Which re-enforces my point that Atomix/Numark needs high-profile pro's to be seen with and advocating VDJ/VV to change that perception that VDJ is not for the discriminate, reputable, traveled, and much more visible music industry circuit turntablist/dj's (beyond club reidents and mobile).
Remember that Numark Virtuall Vinyl will be $499, right at the same price point as Rane SSL and Stanton/NI Final Scratch, and even though it costs more than M-Audio Torq, you get visual mixing capabilities. Once the word gets about that it'll be a SERIOUS competitor to ALL those other audio only products.
Hopefully that will change shortly and Atomix/Numark will wise up and realize that those professionals that can influence and expose VDJ/VV to a lot more relevant people who actually might purchase the product, more than a club patron or a mobile event patron who is "just there" and even though they may be "wowed" by the products features at the event, could care less about what it as after they've left.
VDJ already has a HUGE base of those types of dj's and now it's time to expand it's user base to the higher profile segment of the market that will make VD/VV a household name from the top of the music industry all the way down to the bottom WITH the help and further expansion of it's existing user base.
dami2550 wrote :
Let's keep it real. Some products are going to pick up, some won't. I'll be really surprised if this one takes off
I've got one thing to say to that: Visual and video mixing.
It'll take off. ;)
Inviato Fri 16 Mar 07 @ 9:21 pm
ConQuest
Everyone's gotta start somewhere and if a bedroom/hobbyist starts with VDJ/VV and aspires to be ANYTHING more than that all the way up to a world renowned artist, and VDJ/VV is accepted in those high end circles as well as everywhere in between the highest professional and beginning levels, then Atomix/Numark has a customer for life.
Inviato Fri 16 Mar 07 @ 9:40 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
VDJ has already taken off.. ;)
- The most downloaded audio app on the planet
- The best video solution on the market
- The market leader in Europe
The question is rather will it make it at the pro dj scene?
And why should it matter, when so many bedroom djs use it and know it ?
Well, clubs and pro djs wont use cracked versions at same rate as bedroom djs that dont gig.
That alone matters.
Secondly, having it used at the pro league, makes the software seen. Its good exposure and promo.
So it will make VDJ better known. This is specially needed in USA, where SSL have done just this for years, making a good market position.
But its not like VDJ hasn't taken off. Its the most popular dj software at the market. Just need to make it the preffered choice at the pro league too.
And as said, it did need things like new default skin (I guess the user saying bad about defautl skin refferes to the old default).
And it needs a bit of a better look, branding and more at other areas too
But things progress;) So VDJ might just be more popular and known in USA too soon ;)
Inviato Fri 16 Mar 07 @ 9:44 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
ConQuest wrote :
Everyone's gotta start somewhere and if a bedroom/hobbyist starts with VDJ/VV and aspires to be a world renowned performer, and VDJ/VV is accepted in those high end circles as well as everywhere in between, then Atomix/Numark has a customer for life.
Damn right ! thats EXACTLY whats needed... ;)
Brand loyalty you know Cq;) hehe
Inviato Fri 16 Mar 07 @ 9:45 pm
ConQuest
Everything norway just said x2.
=)
=)
Inviato Fri 16 Mar 07 @ 9:47 pm
DJ Marcel_1
What about placeing a "VDJ USED HERE" thumbnail gallery?
Users that resident at clubs - say longer than 6 months - place the Club logo and their handle in a thumbnail.
DJ Marcel
Purple Onion NightClub
Users that resident at clubs - say longer than 6 months - place the Club logo and their handle in a thumbnail.
DJ Marcel
Purple Onion NightClub
Inviato Fri 16 Mar 07 @ 10:46 pm
ConQuest
That's a good idea.
However, lots of us circuit club turntablists/dj's (at least on the LA area) don't do residencies for that long. It's not a priority to us, diverse promotion is. My crew has done clubs seasonally for about 3 months and then moved to a new location to keep our image fresh, and we've done that since 1992 in cunjunction with doing some clubs for longer stretches (6-12 months max).
Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with staying at one place, but a lot of promotion and turntablist/dj crews rotate venues weekly, monthly and quarterly like us to cover more area and increase our exposure, and in this case, the exposure of VDJ/VV and now specifically for us, Visual Turntablism.
Maybe we shouldn't dictate an amount of time that "qualifies" anyone or anyplace to be branded as a user or club that features VDJ/VV. Maybe we can promote users or crews that use it at clubs and events on these forums instead, therefore promoting the user as well as the club/event all at once. Just a thought.
On a similar note in terms of VDJ/VV promotion at the club level, we just had flyers printed yesterday for our weekly Saturday night "VisuALL" club that I'll be doing partner "VT Jimnastyc" starting next week.
I designed an image that I had the promoters put on the flyer which incorporates the Atomix logo, VDJ boxshot, and turntable with the VDJ TCV on it that are all available here on this site. I added the text saying "VisuALL clubs feature VirtualDJ for DJ's and Visual Turntablists."
Stuff like that will help promote VDJ/VV in any areas you cover at all levels. From patrons, to clubs, the music industry in general, and anyone who comes across a flyer.
I like DJ_Marcel_1's idea too, but we need to promote Atomix/Numark and VDJ/VV beyond ourselves, otherwise they'll never penetrate the market.
However, lots of us circuit club turntablists/dj's (at least on the LA area) don't do residencies for that long. It's not a priority to us, diverse promotion is. My crew has done clubs seasonally for about 3 months and then moved to a new location to keep our image fresh, and we've done that since 1992 in cunjunction with doing some clubs for longer stretches (6-12 months max).
Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with staying at one place, but a lot of promotion and turntablist/dj crews rotate venues weekly, monthly and quarterly like us to cover more area and increase our exposure, and in this case, the exposure of VDJ/VV and now specifically for us, Visual Turntablism.
Maybe we shouldn't dictate an amount of time that "qualifies" anyone or anyplace to be branded as a user or club that features VDJ/VV. Maybe we can promote users or crews that use it at clubs and events on these forums instead, therefore promoting the user as well as the club/event all at once. Just a thought.
On a similar note in terms of VDJ/VV promotion at the club level, we just had flyers printed yesterday for our weekly Saturday night "VisuALL" club that I'll be doing partner "VT Jimnastyc" starting next week.
I designed an image that I had the promoters put on the flyer which incorporates the Atomix logo, VDJ boxshot, and turntable with the VDJ TCV on it that are all available here on this site. I added the text saying "VisuALL clubs feature VirtualDJ for DJ's and Visual Turntablists."
Stuff like that will help promote VDJ/VV in any areas you cover at all levels. From patrons, to clubs, the music industry in general, and anyone who comes across a flyer.
I like DJ_Marcel_1's idea too, but we need to promote Atomix/Numark and VDJ/VV beyond ourselves, otherwise they'll never penetrate the market.
Inviato Sat 17 Mar 07 @ 2:00 am
Dj Xeo
you missed your signature conquest!
(good points, didnt know that promoters and crews rotated whole areas so frequently also, guess the business is different over there)
(good points, didnt know that promoters and crews rotated whole areas so frequently also, guess the business is different over there)
Inviato Mon 19 Mar 07 @ 2:15 am
ConQuest
Dj Xeo wrote :
you missed your signature conquest!
(good points, didnt know that promoters and crews rotated whole areas so frequently also, guess the business is different over there)
(good points, didnt know that promoters and crews rotated whole areas so frequently also, guess the business is different over there)
I only post my signature once per thread, usually in my first post of that thread. If I miss it, then I post it as soon as I realize that I missed it.
If there's ever a thread where I posted it more than once, it's because someone said something bad about it and so I posted it again to make them even happier. =P
Or I just messed up and forgot that I had posted it already.
Yeah, there are definitely differences not only in demographics, but in how different people work within those demographics.
BTW, microsoft and windows are evil and eat babies. =P
( I saw your post in that other thread =D )
Inviato Mon 19 Mar 07 @ 3:20 am