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Forum: General Discussion

Topic: DN-HC4500 CONTROLLER - Page: 6

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So just a silly question... who's sound card do you think would be the better quality? The sound card on the Rane MP4? Or the sound card on the Denon 4500?
 
Inviato Mon 03 Sep 07 @ 8:16 pm
@CanSpoilU

Both companies make very good quality products, so it depends on your preference: Do you prefer your soundcard in the mixer or controller? In my opinion, if you plan on purchasing the HC-4500, it would be a waste of money to buy a mixer with a soundcard also. However, I know that you like the MP4 because of its size. It would be nice if Denon made a similar size mixer without the soundcard and $599 price tag.

OO
 
Inviato Mon 03 Sep 07 @ 10:12 pm
DJ Marcel_1 wrote :
Y'know judging by the amount of posts and veiwed numbers, this is damn smart little bit of free advertising for denon.


It does seem that way ;)

DJ Marcel_1 wrote :
I must say kudos for VDJ to allow this to be discussed in such depth.


I agree. That’s why I like this forum—we can have in-depth discussions about other products.

DJ Marcel_1 wrote :
If Only Numark had listened to us when we asked for this style of controller.

touch sensitive jogs
integrated soundcard
good built quality.
Rackmount (dance of joy for rackmount)


I’ve already posted an opinion in this thread about my disappoint with the DMC2:

Double O wrote :
Don’t take this the wrong way but the DMC-2 is not on the same level as the DN-HC4500. In fact, the technology on the DMC2 is dated. It’s basically the controller for the Numark CDN-95. I expected Numark to come out with something that would truly set a “new mark” in the software controller market. Instead, we have old “Numark” techonolgy for software that continues to improve technologically. Touch sensitive jog wheels have been out for over several years now. Why would Numark regress technologically with the DMC-2 by using a platform that is at least four years old? Furthermore, we posted what was expected in a previous thread for Numark. Unfortunately, Numark didn’t provide us with what we requested.


DJ Marcel_1 wrote :
I like the DMC2, and probably won't buy another controller untill it dies, but DAMN denon got the goods on this one.


If Numark had applied our suggestions to the DMC2, this discussion probably wouldn’t have taken place:

http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/64139/General_Discussion/Develop_a_Numark_Controller_(give_your_ideas_directly_to_Numark_here_).html

I think what’s really disappointing is that Numark put out the first rack mountable mp3 controller years ago—it partnered with PCDJ. When PCDJ released RED and Numark released the CDN-88 (which was originally colored red), PCDJ approached Numark with the idea of using the CD-88 as a controller for RED. Numark didn’t want to do it. However, here we are approximately 6 years later with Numark presenting us with a controller for VDJ that has the same jog wheels as the CD-88 and similar construction.... Go figure????

OO
 
Inviato Mon 03 Sep 07 @ 10:49 pm
Double O wrote :


I think what’s really disappointing is that Numark put out the first rack mountable mp3 controller years ago—it partnered with PCDJ. When PCDJ released RED and Numark released the CDN-88 (which was originally colored red), PCDJ approached Numark with the idea of using the CD-88 as a controller for RED. Numark didn’t want to do it. However, here we are approximately 6 years later with Numark presenting us with a controller for VDJ that has the same jog wheels as the CD-88 and similar construction.

OO


Aint life ironic ;) hehe

And by the way, no offence, but I doubt Reflex will be much of a success, unfortunately.. I love the PCDJ guys (those guys got me started on digital djing), and deeply respect Jorgen... But a Traktor-ish software like Reflex I doubt is what most djs are looking for today, at least those I know... But it will be better than Traktor though (knowing Jorgens past).

It just seriously dont look like a dj software to me...




But then again, I'm biased.. lol






 
Inviato Mon 03 Sep 07 @ 10:56 pm
dj-in-norway wrote :


It just seriously dont look like a dj software to me...




But then again, I'm biased.. lol


i'm non-biased lol and totally agree, looks like a WAV editor from 10 years ago. hey i bet they teamed with Commodor 64 for skinning lol





 
Inviato Mon 03 Sep 07 @ 11:08 pm
dj-in-norway wrote :

And by the way, no offence, but I doubt Reflex will be much of a success, unfortunately.. I love the PCDJ guys (those guys got me started on digital djing), and deeply respect Jorgen... But a Traktor-ish software like Reflex I doubt is what most djs are looking for today, at least those I know... But it will be better than Traktor though (knowing Jorgens past).

It just seriously dont look like a dj software to me...


But then again, I'm biased.. lol



101010101 wrote :
i'm non-biased lol and totally agree, looks like a WAV editor from 10 years ago. hey i bet they teamed with Commodor 64 for skinning lol




I know it looks like multi-track recording software. However, the only reason I give it a chance is because of the partnership with Denon. Also, from what I saw in the aforementioned Reflex video, the beat syncing is second to none—that’s the only advantage I would give it over VDJ. You have to remember that some DJs that buy the HC-4500 might not have a second option for software when their trial period for Reflex expires. Naturally, they will take advantage of the upgrade discount. PCDJ is counting on this, which is why the HC4500 only comes with the trial version.

Furthermore, many former PCDJ users are familiar with the developer’s past work, so they will probably try the trial version. Although PCDJ is back in the game, I don’t think it has enough features to score points with potential customers like its competitors do. Therefore, I think it will have some success but not on the level of its competitors. I even posted my opinion about this subject on the PCDJ message board:

“D1 is coming out with one product that it hopes 'kick butt!' Unfortunately, this is a very difficult and risky endeavor to achieve because of the competition that is on the market…. SL, VDJ/Cue/Virtual Vinyl, Traktor, M-Audio, Mix Vibes, MixMeister Fusion: DJ, etc… will make it very difficult for only one version of Reflex to $ucceed in their markets. I’m sure Reflex will make some money. However, it will be limited because of the aforementioned competition.”

I did catch some heat for my comments, but what else is new ;)

OO
 
Inviato Mon 03 Sep 07 @ 11:37 pm
The demo version with the Denon controller is cool, but unfortunately I doubt that makes sucsess. First of all for the reason that these units dont sell THAT much. Secondly, users are smarter than getting "tricked" into buying whats on the demo cd, or even installing it... They go out lookin at all available solutions, and buys what suits them best.

Remember, most djs that get a controller ALREADY have a software, why else would the go out by an expensive controller in the first place :)

But its a cool promo deal to be on the demo CD, no doubt... It will strike some curiosity from the Denon controller buyers. But if they want to keep using the demo software, is where I have my doubts. It looks a bit too much like RED trying to be Ableton, and not quite making it.

But I do wish they get some sucesss with it, PCDJ been struggelig for far too long. Hope they can get back into the game, competition is always good :)
 
Inviato Mon 03 Sep 07 @ 11:47 pm
Quote :
If Only Numark had listened to us when we asked for this style of controller.


Numark will never listen! Well if their sales reps are anything to go by!
 
Inviato Tue 04 Sep 07 @ 12:06 am
dj-in-norway wrote :
Remember, most djs that get a controller ALREADY have a software, why else would the go out by an expensive controller in the first place :)


Good point.

dj-in-norway wrote :
But its a cool promo deal to be on the demo CD, no doubt... It will strike some curiosity from the Denon controller buyers. But if they want to keep using the demo software, is where I have my doubts. It looks a bit too much like RED trying to be Ableton, and not quite making it.


I agree with you on the appearance, but I guess we’ll have to wait and see about its performance. It does come with two other skins, which PCDJ calls controllers (one looks exactly like the original RED):



dj-in-norway wrote :
But I do wish they get some sucesss with it, PCDJ been struggelig for far too long. Hope they can get back into the game, competition is always good :)


Like you, I hope they have some success….

OO
 
Inviato Tue 04 Sep 07 @ 12:07 am
darloboy wrote :
Quote :
If Only Numark had listened to us when we asked for this style of controller.


Numark will never listen! Well if their sales reps are anything to go by!



they do, and where themselves active posting in the thread about the future numark controllers ;)

And their Product Manager is very often at this forum... so no worries:)

Both Numark, Denon, Vestax and more seems to be embracing and making future great products for software djing.

Lets not forget that Numark made the first ever dual midi/CD hybrid deck, and they wont stop there.. :)
 
Inviato Tue 04 Sep 07 @ 12:09 am
Numark also tried to pass the DMC2 off as new technology when we all know it's based on technology that is about four years old bro.... Denon stepped forward and delivered. We'll see if Numark steps backwards again with its next controller or steps forward and deliver the product that we requested.


OO
 
Inviato Tue 04 Sep 07 @ 12:17 am
Double O wrote :


It does come with two other skins, which PCDJ calls controllers (one looks exactly like the original RED):


OO


I hope for the love of God that the RED skin is meant as a retro tribute to Jorgens original software... How outdated is that! ;)
But that other skin aint all bad.. looks pretty cool actually
 
Inviato Tue 04 Sep 07 @ 12:18 am
If you review the PCDJ message boards, you actually have DJs still using the original RED. PCDJ also had the same skin for Red VRM:



http://pcdj.com/products/dj-software/red/

It illustrates how far PCDJ fell behind the competition.

OO

 
Inviato Tue 04 Sep 07 @ 12:21 am
yeah, and thats where PCDJ Reflex will get its customers too, I think. Already PCDJ users looking to upgrade, and not being much fan of FX (for reasons not needed to get into). And by that, not expanding much outside the world of already PCDJ users.
Its too "outdated" in a way.... Targeted at RED users somehow.

Or maybe I'm just a bit disapointed. Was expecting some really "progressive" software after the 3-4 years of hype about this new software Jorgen was working on, and what came didnt quite live up to my expectations at least.

But hopefully it will make a PCDJ come-back on the scene though.
 
Inviato Tue 04 Sep 07 @ 12:25 am
dj-in-norway wrote :

yeah, and thats where PCDJ Reflex will get its customers too, I think. Not expanding much outside the world of already PCDJ users.
Its too "outdated" in a way....


Double O wrote :
Numark also tried to pass the DMC2 off as new technology when we all know it's based on technology that is about four years old bro....


Maybe PCDJ needs to partner with Numark again since both companies like the "outdated" look....LOL

OO
 
Inviato Tue 04 Sep 07 @ 12:28 am
wow less options then V 3.4, for there sake they gotta play catch up
 
Inviato Tue 04 Sep 07 @ 12:34 am
Double O wrote :


Maybe PCDJ needs to partner with Numark again since both companies like the "outdated" look....LOL

OO





Well, I actually disagree about the characteristics about Numark ;)

Although Denon seems to be making an awesome controller, one got to remember that Numark over the last year(s) achieved the following :

- Worlds first hybrid turntable (Numark CDX)
- Worlds first real challenge to the legendary 1200s (Numark TTX) - its discussable, but most say so
- Words first hybrid midi controller/CD deck (iCDX)
- Achieving a gigant leap in the world of software djing, by partnering with VDJ
- Achieving a giant leap in the world of remixing, by partnering with MixMeister
- Achieving a giant leap in the world of VJing, by partnering with Arkaos
- In the comsumer world, making world first iPod mixer
- Video controllers, direct from harddrive rackmounts, DMC-2 software rackmount, TotalControl midi controller etc


This where almost all done last 2 years... Compare THAT to releases from other companies ;)

And Numark will come with more, I doubt they are sleeping in the class ;) rather oposite.
The DMC2 being based on years old technology or not, its a pretty awesome controller (compared to the products its target at, the DAC's from PCDJ)


But the Denon one is awesome, and I really love the approach Vestax did with the VCI-100 too
 
Inviato Tue 04 Sep 07 @ 12:38 am
I’m not criticizing Numark as a company, only with the design of the dated DMC2. As I mentioned before, Numark came out with the first rack mountable software controller. Your discloser of Numarks recent technological achievements illustrate that the DMC2 is an underachievement :( I know Numark can deliver a better controller—one on the same level as the HC-4500. Unfortunately, Numark didn’t; it chose to use a four-year design. "Why?" However, Denon's first software controller has the latest technology, and we know "why."

OO
 
Inviato Tue 04 Sep 07 @ 12:44 am
yeah, I do feel or suspect you are right. The DMC2 might been something numark had or could have had, ready for market years ago (After all they made the original DAC controller for PCDJ).

But one gotta look at the release of the DMC2 in light of Numark releasing their "own" software, CUE, and wanting to release a "DAC" controller of their own for it. Many wants that controller, just like many have bought DAC-3.

But I totally agree that the Denon one is far more modern, and far more ground breaking :)
 
Inviato Tue 04 Sep 07 @ 12:48 am
I respect very much what Numark has done for the digital DJing world. This is why it’s hard for me to accept the DMC2—it was done years ago with a dual CD player called the CDN-90.

OO
 
Inviato Tue 04 Sep 07 @ 1:04 am
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