rockandrollkid
im not the only one here having limiter issues ... as i stated before why are we forced to accept limiter in the software when in fact in all the prev versions there was an option to disable and other software like sam dj has that ... and im dont like sam the competion doesnt force limiter on its software .. if u need it fine but if dont turn it off i truly belive that a true dj can tell when the audio is bein distorted without havin a lmiter to check them or babysit the audio even cap the db we all know our audio limits anyone agree
Inviato Sat 07 Jun 14 @ 7:15 pm
locoDog
Too true, with V7 I'd briefly overdrive the track with the fader slightly lowered for a clipping effect, that's not possible now, I have no problem with being forced to have a limiter on the master but on the channels it is too much.
Inviato Sun 08 Jun 14 @ 5:54 am
djles.co.uk
Audio Options, advanced options;
zeroDB = 0.750000
Problem solved ;-)
zeroDB = 0.750000
Problem solved ;-)
Inviato Sun 08 Jun 14 @ 8:43 pm
djniconeuquen
scrach work, saturates the master channel ...
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Inviato Mon 09 Jun 14 @ 5:54 am
sureview
I don't think you need to turn the limiter off, just set up 0db to .75
I go to so many gigs were the sound is distorted and nobody seems to care !
somtimes its just distorted , sometimes the amps are clipping.
if your gains are set right the limiter should not kick in anyway
I go to so many gigs were the sound is distorted and nobody seems to care !
somtimes its just distorted , sometimes the amps are clipping.
if your gains are set right the limiter should not kick in anyway
Inviato Mon 09 Jun 14 @ 1:19 pm
homeworld
Hi, I have been doing professional sound for almost 40 years and I know how to set up compressors and limiters. They both have their respective uses but are set up very similarly. You have the "how much" part and the "when to do it" part. (for the uninitiated)
In using 8, I have found that the limiting programmed is "too much too soon". The auto gain is setting the level at the bleeding edge of engagement of the limiter. Then there is "too much" as you hear it clamping down harshly right away. So there is no leeway say if you want to accent (bring up) the volume for any given part of a song using the input faders. 7 does not do this. 7 is set with more space before saturation. And even when it does, it sounds much better. 8 has kind of a whiny sound to it when it limits. Not clean. I thought there was something wrong with my system the first time I heard it.
It seems that 8 limits both the inputs AND the master. But I may be wrong. You don't need to limit both, pick one.
Limiting should be set within 75 to 80% of the signal before the engage threshold. This will give you room for dynamic range and volume changes due to real world mixing levels. After the threshold is crossed, the amount of "hard knee" compression (limiting) should be just enough to keep your pre-amps from clipping and stay clean sounding. Which is currently not the case with 8.
(Ver. 1828.630)
In using 8, I have found that the limiting programmed is "too much too soon". The auto gain is setting the level at the bleeding edge of engagement of the limiter. Then there is "too much" as you hear it clamping down harshly right away. So there is no leeway say if you want to accent (bring up) the volume for any given part of a song using the input faders. 7 does not do this. 7 is set with more space before saturation. And even when it does, it sounds much better. 8 has kind of a whiny sound to it when it limits. Not clean. I thought there was something wrong with my system the first time I heard it.
It seems that 8 limits both the inputs AND the master. But I may be wrong. You don't need to limit both, pick one.
Limiting should be set within 75 to 80% of the signal before the engage threshold. This will give you room for dynamic range and volume changes due to real world mixing levels. After the threshold is crossed, the amount of "hard knee" compression (limiting) should be just enough to keep your pre-amps from clipping and stay clean sounding. Which is currently not the case with 8.
(Ver. 1828.630)
Inviato Thu 12 Jun 14 @ 6:10 pm
Blaine.S
I too have to chime in as this is the only problem I am having with VDJ8 and there is definitely something amiss. I will use one track as example, Joe Jacksons "You Can't Get What You Want". When I view the statistics for the waveform of this track, I can see that the peak output is 0.624db.
Then when loaded into VDJ8 and hovering over the gain knob, it indicates 7.50db while in the deck info window, it show 0.2db. The 0.2 factor makes sense to me but leaves no headroom at all.
I closely agree with homeworld above describing a "clamping" affect. I would describe it as suppression or attenuation that fluctuates too quickly making the output quality unacceptable. Now throw in doing any sort of EQ from your controller. When I turn up the bass even slightly, the fluctuating suppression goes berzerk and the limiter light flashes constantly.
A digital soundfile cannot go above 0db thus it would seem appropriate for a limiter algorithm to keep that in check and include EQ variations. Perhaps the auto-gain is processing waveforms too close to 0db not leaving enough headroom allowance. I have always liked the auto-gain in VDJ7, never altered the gain of a track and never used the limiter as my amps have a 1400mv input and my audio card maxes out at 900mv so hardware wise, I'm safe. And I have never seem the clip indicators on my amps even flicker.
IMO, if the limiter is to be a constant function, then the auto-gain algorithm needs reviewed.
Then when loaded into VDJ8 and hovering over the gain knob, it indicates 7.50db while in the deck info window, it show 0.2db. The 0.2 factor makes sense to me but leaves no headroom at all.
I closely agree with homeworld above describing a "clamping" affect. I would describe it as suppression or attenuation that fluctuates too quickly making the output quality unacceptable. Now throw in doing any sort of EQ from your controller. When I turn up the bass even slightly, the fluctuating suppression goes berzerk and the limiter light flashes constantly.
A digital soundfile cannot go above 0db thus it would seem appropriate for a limiter algorithm to keep that in check and include EQ variations. Perhaps the auto-gain is processing waveforms too close to 0db not leaving enough headroom allowance. I have always liked the auto-gain in VDJ7, never altered the gain of a track and never used the limiter as my amps have a 1400mv input and my audio card maxes out at 900mv so hardware wise, I'm safe. And I have never seem the clip indicators on my amps even flicker.
IMO, if the limiter is to be a constant function, then the auto-gain algorithm needs reviewed.
Inviato Sun 13 Jul 14 @ 12:35 pm
groovindj
I suppose in theory you could put a limiter plugin on the master output, but it would be better if that wasn't necessary and the built in limiter wasn't so obvious.
Here's a free one that works OK on the master effects. LINK
Can be pumped quite hard without sounding awful (unlike the VDJ one).
Here's a free one that works OK on the master effects. LINK
Can be pumped quite hard without sounding awful (unlike the VDJ one).
Inviato Sun 13 Jul 14 @ 12:45 pm
Blaine.S
I looked over LoudMax and while it would not be beneficial with a VDJ system, I can see where having a threshold/output option and parameters for auto-gain could have its place within VDJ. Perhaps then the VDJ limiter would not be so "trigger happy".
Inviato Sun 13 Jul 14 @ 4:08 pm
groovindj
Blaine.S wrote :
it would not be beneficial with a VDJ system
Why not?
You mentioned a clamping effect that makes the output quality unacceptable.
With LoudMax (or similar) running on the master effect, the VDJ limiter doesn't get the chance to wreck things. The effect does the clamping in a much more subtle way.
Why is that not beneficial?
Inviato Sun 13 Jul 14 @ 4:46 pm
Blaine.S
Oh it certainly would be beneficial but the issue is, VDJ8 is processing and outputting what LoudMax would see in the process path. Therefore LoudMax would be dealing with a wrecked signal and could not restore it. It's in the pre-processing area before LoudMax would see it. LoudMax does what VDJ's auto-gain does, just in a different part of the signal path. Hope that helps clarify my statement.
Plus, I see no reason to add a plug-in to handle this problem when we all know that VDJ is very capable of doing it. At least in VDJ7.4.
Plus, I see no reason to add a plug-in to handle this problem when we all know that VDJ is very capable of doing it. At least in VDJ7.4.
Inviato Sun 13 Jul 14 @ 5:50 pm
groovindj
I suspect you've not actually tried it out yourself......
After reading your initial post, I experimented with my own plugins and found that using a limiter plugin on the master effects channel prevented the VDJ limiter from activating.
With a limiter in that position, the signal never gets to a high enough level for the VDJ limiter to engage......even slightly.
End result - better sound.
After reading your initial post, I experimented with my own plugins and found that using a limiter plugin on the master effects channel prevented the VDJ limiter from activating.
With a limiter in that position, the signal never gets to a high enough level for the VDJ limiter to engage......even slightly.
End result - better sound.
Inviato Sun 13 Jul 14 @ 6:23 pm
Blaine.S
I did try it and studied the process path after I heard that it did not help. Sorry but it simply does not work for me. And again, VDJ can handle this if the team chooses to let it.
Inviato Sun 13 Jul 14 @ 7:34 pm
locoDog
That's a nice effect groovin I'll chaining that after all the effects that can increase the volume.
You two maybe a cross purposes, that effect on the master only, can still have the limiter kick in if a channel is too high, If you cover channel & master no more atomix limiter (so long as loudmax is always the last thing in the fx chain)
You two maybe a cross purposes, that effect on the master only, can still have the limiter kick in if a channel is too high, If you cover channel & master no more atomix limiter (so long as loudmax is always the last thing in the fx chain
Inviato Sun 13 Jul 14 @ 8:15 pm
rockandrollkid
so there u go finally other users are seeing a limiter problem.. the feature to disable or enable it was available in 7.4 .. it needs to be added to 8 I rest my case
Inviato Sun 13 Jul 14 @ 8:26 pm
Djratedxxx919
I agree limiter should be an option my question is why are you guys send such a hot signal through the Channels. Ive seen this with alot of pics people have uploaded. VDJ meters maxed out, mixer levels maxed out. Even the picture above the meter is maxed out. So as i see it, the problem is not the software. like stated before take the zero db down. Myself i use mp3gain to set all track volumes at .89db my zerodb is set at 0.50 
Give me this gain as normal. never comes in to hot, plus leave headroom for adjustments. Clean sound out of the software , then the main/house mixer gain used to level as close to 0 decibel with out clipping. And a note if you are going from pc or controller straight into powered speakers or straight into an amplifier. Save up and buy some processing capabilities. Because you can have qsc powered speakers they will sound like garbage if your sending them a signal that is to hot.
If you use an external mixer setting the zero decibel to 0.50 then using the dj mixers gain to adjust. But Red is never acceptable. First thing you learn in life is red means danger and stop. Stay out the red on ALL meters.
Give me this gain as normal. never comes in to hot, plus leave headroom for adjustments. Clean sound out of the software , then the main/house mixer gain used to level as close to 0 decibel with out clipping. And a note if you are going from pc or controller straight into powered speakers or straight into an amplifier. Save up and buy some processing capabilities. Because you can have qsc powered speakers they will sound like garbage if your sending them a signal that is to hot.If you use an external mixer setting the zero decibel to 0.50 then using the dj mixers gain to adjust. But Red is never acceptable. First thing you learn in life is red means danger and stop. Stay out the red on ALL meters.
Inviato Sun 13 Jul 14 @ 8:50 pm
rockandrollkid
that's very true djtrax u should not have to max out.. especially when u using a power amp or such for sound but I don't use an audio amp since im a pro broadcaster im stream music on a internet radio station I own ... this is different from playin live at gigs out loud , again I shouldnt have to max the sound out.. also if gain is to low the out put to stream sucks u the listener has to crack the volume to hear even with my master at 100.. of course im trying ur 0.50 db even though using controller. see what happens
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 7:21 am
rockandrollkid
sorry meant @ djrated lol
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 7:22 am
Blaine.S
Djratedxxx919 wrote :
I agree limiter should be an option my question is why are you guys send such a hot signal through the Channels. Ive seen this with alot of pics people have uploaded. VDJ meters maxed out, mixer levels maxed out. Even the picture above the meter is maxed out. So as i see it, the problem is not the software. like stated before take the zero db down. Myself i use mp3gain to set all track volumes at .89db my zerodb is set at 0.50
I understand your reasoning in your statement but the deck ouput slider, being maxed, has nothing to do with how a track is being processed. I can turn the deck sliders all the down, hearing nothing, and the clip indicator still flashes like Rudolph's nose. The issue as I see it is all in the pre-processing stage, not the output.
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 12:32 pm
locoDog
Post gain, pre eq & pre fader, exactly the same position that fx take up, That's why loud max works, the up fader is just a gate
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 12:46 pm
