Blaine.S
So the more I analyze, the more questions I have. Look at this example..
If the gain is 0.0db then why is the limiter working so hard? The track in this example had the limiter as high as 43%. Just let your cursor hover over the indicator while playing a track and watch (and hear) the fluctuations.
Also I think there is a misnomer on the limiter light being near the master output VU meter on the default skin. It seems to me that a lot of folks belive this is a limiter just for the master, it is not. You can have the master slider down to 0 and the limiter indicator blinks away. These are my observations and I would like someone from the VDJ staff to set the record straight.
If the gain is 0.0db then why is the limiter working so hard? The track in this example had the limiter as high as 43%. Just let your cursor hover over the indicator while playing a track and watch (and hear) the fluctuations.
Also I think there is a misnomer on the limiter light being near the master output VU meter on the default skin. It seems to me that a lot of folks belive this is a limiter just for the master, it is not. You can have the master slider down to 0 and the limiter indicator blinks away. These are my observations and I would like someone from the VDJ staff to set the record straight.
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 12:58 pm
locoDog
I think it is because dB is taken as an average and not peak. (Which is curious it must be an unusual average)
I'm going to put a indicator next to the gain of each channel that shows channel vu meter 100%.
I'm going to put a indicator next to the gain of each channel that shows channel vu meter 100%.
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 1:01 pm
groovindj
I can't fathom what on earth you must be doing Blaine, because I've just played a track here (gain at 0dB) and the channel meter is pretty high.
The master meter is high too but not peaking red at all, and the limiter tooltip shows 0%. There's an occasional very brief flash of another amount, but it's too quick to tell what it says.
There's certainly no flashing of the limiter light.
On your screen grab there's nothing up near the top of the channel meter and the master meter shows one green light, yet the limiter is at 17%. WTF?
The master meter is high too but not peaking red at all, and the limiter tooltip shows 0%. There's an occasional very brief flash of another amount, but it's too quick to tell what it says.
There's certainly no flashing of the limiter light.
On your screen grab there's nothing up near the top of the channel meter and the master meter shows one green light, yet the limiter is at 17%. WTF?
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 1:34 pm
locoDog
He could be metering the output of the channel.
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 2:26 pm
Djratedxxx919
Blaine.S wrote :
I understand your reasoning in your statement but the deck ouput slider, being maxed, has nothing to do with how a track is being processed. I can turn the deck sliders all the down, hearing nothing, and the clip indicator still flashes like Rudolph's nose. The issue as I see it is all in the pre-processing stage, not the output.
Djratedxxx919 wrote :
I agree limiter should be an option my question is why are you guys send such a hot signal through the Channels. Ive seen this with alot of pics people have uploaded. VDJ meters maxed out, mixer levels maxed out. Even the picture above the meter is maxed out. So as i see it, the problem is not the software. like stated before take the zero db down. Myself i use mp3gain to set all track volumes at .89db my zerodb is set at 0.50 
I understand your reasoning in your statement but the deck ouput slider, being maxed, has nothing to do with how a track is being processed. I can turn the deck sliders all the down, hearing nothing, and the clip indicator still flashes like Rudolph's nose. The issue as I see it is all in the pre-processing stage, not the output.
Im not talking about the slider im talking the vu meter that lets you know the level of your sound the slider means nothing
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 3:23 pm
Djratedxxx919
This is where understanding mixing chain comes in, understanding unity gain...we call you guys speaker blowers. When you dj its like mixing down a track in production. left side is track 1 right side is track 2 mic is track 3 samplers are inserts on both tracks. so if im clipping on all those tracks the sound giving to the crowd will be horrible and damaging to the speakers. you guys need to study your craft, heres a good read
http://www.djtechtools.com/2010/05/16/dj-essentials-trust-the-levels/
http://www.djtechtools.com/2010/05/16/dj-essentials-trust-the-levels/
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 3:40 pm
Fruit
sureview wrote :
I don't think you need to turn the limiter off, just set up 0db to .75
WAY better like this !!
Thank you for the tip man, you deserve !
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 4:10 pm
Blaine.S
groovindj wrote :
I can't fathom what on earth you must be doing Blaine, because I've just played a track here (gain at 0dB) and the channel meter is pretty high.
The master meter is high too but not peaking red at all, and the limiter tooltip shows 0%. There's an occasional very brief flash of another amount, but it's too quick to tell what it says.
There's certainly no flashing of the limiter light.
On your screen grab there's nothing up near the top of the channel meter and the master meter shows one green light, yet the limiter is at 17%. WTF?
The master meter is high too but not peaking red at all, and the limiter tooltip shows 0%. There's an occasional very brief flash of another amount, but it's too quick to tell what it says.
There's certainly no flashing of the limiter light.
On your screen grab there's nothing up near the top of the channel meter and the master meter shows one green light, yet the limiter is at 17%. WTF?
You've made my point. Why is this hapenning?
And we are most definitely not "speaker blowers". Actually over the years, our biggest compliments at large venues are how loud but clean our sound is and I am doing my best to keep it that way. We've put a lot of capital into our equipment and have it insured mostly for weather & transport reasons. But I'll be darned if I'll let my DJ team go out there and use something that we cannot get a handle on. We are sticking to 7.4 until we figure this out. I'm not trying to be a nag, I want to help uncover whatever is going on here.
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 4:17 pm
Blaine.S
Fruit wrote :
WAY better like this !!
Thank you for the tip man, you deserve !
sureview wrote :
I don't think you need to turn the limiter off, just set up 0db to .75
WAY better like this !!
Thank you for the tip man, you deserve !
Make that -0.75db in auto-gain and that may do it. Then the heavy hammer of the limiter might not engage.
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 4:21 pm
Djratedxxx919
Blaine.S wrote :
You've made my point. Why is this hapenning?
And we are most definitely not "speaker blowers". Actually over the years, our biggest compliments at large venues are how loud but clean our sound is and I am doing my best to keep it that way. We've put a lot of capital into our equipment and have it insured mostly for weather & transport reasons. But I'll be darned if I'll let my DJ team go out there and use something that we cannot get a handle on. We are sticking to 7.4 until we figure this out. I'm not trying to be a nag, I want to help uncover whatever is going on here.
groovindj wrote :
I can't fathom what on earth you must be doing Blaine, because I've just played a track here (gain at 0dB) and the channel meter is pretty high.
The master meter is high too but not peaking red at all, and the limiter tooltip shows 0%. There's an occasional very brief flash of another amount, but it's too quick to tell what it says.
There's certainly no flashing of the limiter light.
On your screen grab there's nothing up near the top of the channel meter and the master meter shows one green light, yet the limiter is at 17%. WTF?
The master meter is high too but not peaking red at all, and the limiter tooltip shows 0%. There's an occasional very brief flash of another amount, but it's too quick to tell what it says.
There's certainly no flashing of the limiter light.
On your screen grab there's nothing up near the top of the channel meter and the master meter shows one green light, yet the limiter is at 17%. WTF?
You've made my point. Why is this hapenning?
And we are most definitely not "speaker blowers". Actually over the years, our biggest compliments at large venues are how loud but clean our sound is and I am doing my best to keep it that way. We've put a lot of capital into our equipment and have it insured mostly for weather & transport reasons. But I'll be darned if I'll let my DJ team go out there and use something that we cannot get a handle on. We are sticking to 7.4 until we figure this out. I'm not trying to be a nag, I want to help uncover whatever is going on here.
The limiter is on so hard is because your mp3 volumes are to hot. the limiter is on the master. So on the deck level meter is a reading before the limiter , the master reading is after limiter is applied. So if you scale back the mp3s volume and/or scale back the zero db that solve your problem. the audio engine is a lot louder so the song files will be louder, ive notice with v8 ive had to scale back on volume across the board becuase of the difference in volume from v7 to v8. So an adjustment is needed on your part, on the this term the software is correct and warning you that it sounds better and doesnt need to start with such a hot signal.
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 4:44 pm
djles.co.uk
Fruit wrote :
WAY better like this !!
Thank you for the tip man, you deserve !
sureview wrote :
I don't think you need to turn the limiter off, just set up 0db to .75
WAY better like this !!
Thank you for the tip man, you deserve !
Hmmmm, I mentioned this tip 2 posts above sureview, 3rd post in this fast growing thread. Oh well......
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 5:08 pm
Blaine.S
Djratedxxx919 wrote :
The limiter is on so hard is because your mp3 volumes are to hot. the limiter is on the master.
Not true, Sir. My sound files are getting bumped up to, or near 0db by VDJ's auto-gain. I have no problems with using auto-gain, it has served us well. And while it seems that some here believe that the limiter is on the master, I find that it is not. The master slider can be all the way down and the limiter still goes off. I would like to hear from a VDJ official on this.
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 5:42 pm
rockandrollkid
now my turn... ive read all the post on the limiter issue... LET ME STATE THIS THE LIMITER BULID IN 8 WITH AUTO GAIN IS A DAMM AUDIO COMPRESSOR.. PERIOD. now put 7.4 and 8 together as a test 7.4 when limiter is disabled no problems period now on ver 8 limiter active restrictions even at low levels.. vdj software isn't going to blow speakers the amps will do that it also been said that ur sound and volume doesn't come from the software especially loudness if so there would be a pre amp and there is not .. all the power that can blow speakers are from amps . now I use vdj for broadcasting these days ... which I prefer over sam at the moment butttt I compare sam to vdj with this issue and sam doesn't give these problems... also if limiter was a problem in other versions like distortion and blowing speakers then why wasn't this made automatic in 7 the choice was given to use it or not ..... I cant see why its a big issue to reinstate that option in 8 and by the way why is there a button on like mentioned which stays lite... similar to the mic button that button could be used to enable or disable simple coding to revise the user should have that choice we buy the software to use and customize for our gigs etc ... ive invested over 400.00 us dollars in atomix every thing else gets done why not this I rest my case now that I vented thanks for reading steve
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 6:46 pm
Fruit
DJSoulman wrote :
Hmmmm, I mentioned this tip 2 posts above sureview, 3rd post in this fast growing thread. Oh well......
Fruit wrote :
WAY better like this !!
Thank you for the tip man, you deserve !
sureview wrote :
I don't think you need to turn the limiter off, just set up 0db to .75
WAY better like this !!
Thank you for the tip man, you deserve !
Hmmmm, I mentioned this tip 2 posts above sureview, 3rd post in this fast growing thread. Oh well......
Sorry lol, you deserve too ! :)
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 7:06 pm
djles.co.uk
Ha ha ha, cheers man. Just felt like no-one is listening.......... hello........ hello...... is anybody there........
I'll just go and sit in the corner :-)
I'll just go and sit in the corner :-)
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 7:40 pm
Fruit
lol :)
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 7:46 pm
Djratedxxx919
I dont think he gets the picture at all
Inviato Mon 14 Jul 14 @ 7:52 pm
DJ Kyri
From sound work i have done.... and from what i have experienced with many programs..... Is.... IF YOU ARE RED LINING meaning.. if you bumping that limiter THEN YOU ARE TOOOOO HOT IN THAT CHANNEL...
DROP THE GAIN and RAISE your Master volume... """The The Mixer and the AMPs do the work!!"
Now.... I haven't paid to much attention to WHEN the limiter kicks in cause I NEVER have a problem like this BUT if the Limiter Kicks ON TO soon.. then in my mind IM being robbed of sound!!... lolol
Even if that's the case.. again... My output is loud and clear...
Word of advise, IF you are hitting that limiter your sound is basically on the verge if not already distorting coming out!
(Truth be told here, i have not read everyone's post in here yet.. So please dont hang me if I repeated what someone else has said!)
DROP THE GAIN and RAISE your Master volume... """The The Mixer and the AMPs do the work!!"
Now.... I haven't paid to much attention to WHEN the limiter kicks in cause I NEVER have a problem like this BUT if the Limiter Kicks ON TO soon.. then in my mind IM being robbed of sound!!... lolol
Even if that's the case.. again... My output is loud and clear...
Word of advise, IF you are hitting that limiter your sound is basically on the verge if not already distorting coming out!
(Truth be told here, i have not read everyone's post in here yet.. So please dont hang me if I repeated what someone else has said!)
Inviato Tue 15 Jul 14 @ 12:25 am
Adion
Blaine.S wrote :
So the more I analyze, the more questions I have. Look at this example..
If the gain is 0.0db then why is the limiter working so hard? The track in this example had the limiter as high as 43%. Just let your cursor hover over the indicator while playing a track and watch (and hear) the fluctuations.
Also I think there is a misnomer on the limiter light being near the master output VU meter on the default skin. It seems to me that a lot of folks belive this is a limiter just for the master, it is not. You can have the master slider down to 0 and the limiter indicator blinks away. These are my observations and I would like someone from the VDJ staff to set the record straight.
If the gain is 0.0db then why is the limiter working so hard? The track in this example had the limiter as high as 43%. Just let your cursor hover over the indicator while playing a track and watch (and hear) the fluctuations.
Also I think there is a misnomer on the limiter light being near the master output VU meter on the default skin. It seems to me that a lot of folks belive this is a limiter just for the master, it is not. You can have the master slider down to 0 and the limiter indicator blinks away. These are my observations and I would like someone from the VDJ staff to set the record straight.
It would be useful to know which track this is. When the value on the deck sys '0dB' that indeed indicates that the gain is set normalized based on an industry-standard average. You wouldn't want auto-gain to normalize based on the peak value, since that would give wild fluctuations between tracks.
It seems that auto-gain possibly incorrectly analyzed this particular song then, or there is something else wrong in your settings/configuration.
Inviato Tue 15 Jul 14 @ 12:55 am
blckjck
I think the biggest issues, as stated above, is the initial setting of the autoGain. I noticed this when the limiter came out in 7. Instead of turning it off, I adjusted my autoGain setting, as also mentioned above. This fixed the problem in 7. With 8, I had to bring down the auto gain a little more and rescan my library. I have not seen the limiter blink once since.
Also, for those that are unaware, analog and digital headroom shows quite different on the meters. When I set my gain on my analog mixer, I am aiming for an average signal strength at unity or 0db. If my signal goes above 0, it's not an issue because of the headroom (+22db) in my analog gear. In the digital realm, 0db is the hard deck. If you hit it, there is no give or room. I aim for -18db to -12db in digital space to give me the headroom before 0db (hardeck). The limiter should be there and kick in before 0db to compress the signal instead of letting it clip.
Set your autoGain down lower and rescan. It sounds so much better then the limiter compressing over compressed pre recorded music.
Also, for those that are unaware, analog and digital headroom shows quite different on the meters. When I set my gain on my analog mixer, I am aiming for an average signal strength at unity or 0db. If my signal goes above 0, it's not an issue because of the headroom (+22db) in my analog gear. In the digital realm, 0db is the hard deck. If you hit it, there is no give or room. I aim for -18db to -12db in digital space to give me the headroom before 0db (hardeck). The limiter should be there and kick in before 0db to compress the signal instead of letting it clip.
Set your autoGain down lower and rescan. It sounds so much better then the limiter compressing over compressed pre recorded music.
Inviato Tue 15 Jul 14 @ 12:06 pm
