originalmadmanjohn
My partner and I switched to a pair of Indillinx based OCZ SSD about 8 months back. The performance boost was nothing short of astounding. Thought it would be a good thing---until....
exactly 91 days later during a show the SSD died. My partner's went up in smoke about a month later as i do more gigs than he does. Now you have to understand. I was a bit concerned about the read/write cycles and had moved system pagefile and virtually all the software that uses its data or writing since we also use a lot of multitrack recording software (acoustica mixcraft) and video production software (sony vegas pro) as well as all download related folders and virtually everything we could find that was doing a ton of repeated writes.
Unfortunately in windows 7, the hidden appdata folders where a lot of this action takes place are not easily accessible and cannot be moved. our setups basically match, as we both use 2 tb drives for all our music, karaoke, and videos, and a 250gb druve as a "workspace" where all the action takes place.
OCZ was wonderful about replacing the drives and sent us back a pair of the vertex II sandforce based drives. the first thing we noticed was definite performance drop compared to the indillinx based drives because of the slower 35nm chips in the sandforce drives.
After speaking and planning with the OCZ tech staff, we are convinced that the main problem lies in the sample write that takes place when you load a file.
At the time this all began, we were running PCDJ VJ 5.2. Now we both run Virtual 6.x final and are probably going to 7 soon.
My question for the crew is, what exactly happens when we load a file to play? Rumor and all i have been able to find is that it loads the file in "memory" - would this be ram, or system pagefile and if so, what folder is this taking place in and can it be moved to a different drive?
according to what we see while monitoring ram performance, thats not where its going, but its kinda hard to tell with 8gb of ram.
Until I find this out, Im still on my veliciraptor. Any info at all would be appriciated--- how bout a word or two from techstaff?
exactly 91 days later during a show the SSD died. My partner's went up in smoke about a month later as i do more gigs than he does. Now you have to understand. I was a bit concerned about the read/write cycles and had moved system pagefile and virtually all the software that uses its data or writing since we also use a lot of multitrack recording software (acoustica mixcraft) and video production software (sony vegas pro) as well as all download related folders and virtually everything we could find that was doing a ton of repeated writes.
Unfortunately in windows 7, the hidden appdata folders where a lot of this action takes place are not easily accessible and cannot be moved. our setups basically match, as we both use 2 tb drives for all our music, karaoke, and videos, and a 250gb druve as a "workspace" where all the action takes place.
OCZ was wonderful about replacing the drives and sent us back a pair of the vertex II sandforce based drives. the first thing we noticed was definite performance drop compared to the indillinx based drives because of the slower 35nm chips in the sandforce drives.
After speaking and planning with the OCZ tech staff, we are convinced that the main problem lies in the sample write that takes place when you load a file.
At the time this all began, we were running PCDJ VJ 5.2. Now we both run Virtual 6.x final and are probably going to 7 soon.
My question for the crew is, what exactly happens when we load a file to play? Rumor and all i have been able to find is that it loads the file in "memory" - would this be ram, or system pagefile and if so, what folder is this taking place in and can it be moved to a different drive?
according to what we see while monitoring ram performance, thats not where its going, but its kinda hard to tell with 8gb of ram.
Until I find this out, Im still on my veliciraptor. Any info at all would be appriciated--- how bout a word or two from techstaff?
Inviato Thu 13 Jan 11 @ 3:33 pm
MixMaker
Holy...!!
I was about to switch my HDD for a SSD for my gig system until I've read this post.
So, isn't safe to do so??
I was about to switch my HDD for a SSD for my gig system until I've read this post.
So, isn't safe to do so??
Inviato Thu 13 Jan 11 @ 10:42 pm
originalmadmanjohn
well i dont know if i would go that far, but remember, what we do with computers is not considered a " natural act" :D
The big thing is the read write cycles-- with mlc chips which is what most ssd's run on you are only limited to appox 10,000 writes per cell -- ok so now you have a 40gb ssd - do the math -
if my understanding of this is correct - if a cell only holds X amount of bytes, everytime we load a song is one time closer to the day of failure --
99% of my gigs are all video and karaoke, so the files are larger, so if a file is 10mb average and the atomix engine is analyzing the bpm and gain while it loads as well as doing the video decoding, then this file is being either copied direct, but the street rumor is that they convert it to thier own proprietary file. Whether or not that file increases or decrases the size and where it loads it to becomes key in maintaining the life of the SSD. in ver 7 now you have 4 or more players you can load at once- if its not going to ram, then where do these files load to?
Now im not asking to reveal the secrets of the atomix engine, im just trying to extend the life of the average ssd to longer than the predicted amount of cycles. the best way to do that would be to move this "sampling folder" to a motorized drive- that is IF it can be done -
if not, get a real fast drive :D
still watching for tech support ides here guys.
The big thing is the read write cycles-- with mlc chips which is what most ssd's run on you are only limited to appox 10,000 writes per cell -- ok so now you have a 40gb ssd - do the math -
if my understanding of this is correct - if a cell only holds X amount of bytes, everytime we load a song is one time closer to the day of failure --
99% of my gigs are all video and karaoke, so the files are larger, so if a file is 10mb average and the atomix engine is analyzing the bpm and gain while it loads as well as doing the video decoding, then this file is being either copied direct, but the street rumor is that they convert it to thier own proprietary file. Whether or not that file increases or decrases the size and where it loads it to becomes key in maintaining the life of the SSD. in ver 7 now you have 4 or more players you can load at once- if its not going to ram, then where do these files load to?
Now im not asking to reveal the secrets of the atomix engine, im just trying to extend the life of the average ssd to longer than the predicted amount of cycles. the best way to do that would be to move this "sampling folder" to a motorized drive- that is IF it can be done -
if not, get a real fast drive :D
still watching for tech support ides here guys.
Inviato Fri 14 Jan 11 @ 12:17 am
originalmadmanjohn
here is a link for reading-- we used these cause ive had excellent results with their ram and power supplys - but the brand is not important -- as you read the facts you will understand more.
in the average computer , a SSD is an awesome thing, and im here to tell you-- the performance increase running dj software and anything else is incredible- HOWEVER -- most of the operators i know that have tried them have all had similar results - the larger the drive, the longer they last, because you have more cells to fry -- think of it like you would with a motorrized drive with sectors going bad that get reallocated-- as a cell dies, it simply moves that storage and function to another cell -- well-- eventually you run out of cells.
when the 40 gb i tried died it wnet from running like a scalded dog, to dead over the period of 43 minutes, and then would not reboot.
if your computer is a dedicated show computer, and that all you use it for, then that would extend things quite a bit --however - i built this tower to do whatever gig im doing -- that may be a live band where its doing lights or recording 4 tracks, or a karaoke gig, or a vocal demo or radio commercial project, or an ordinary dj gig - and i havent done a non video gig in over 2 years. so this thing is running nearly all the time doing something.when its not running its got its own anvil flight case it lives in.....
during the time i used the ssd -- the only thing on the ssd was the software itself - windows 7 hides a lot of folders where the action is to the average consumer, even to some of us that are slightly technically advanced --
im not saying its a bad product, its not at all, its a wonderful product - im trying to find a way to make it last longer in this world. when you do a lot of live recording, you need a separate drive- JUST FOR THE RECORDING FILES- and the faster the better if your doing multitrack - so when this thing is running dmx lights, recording karaoke singers and playing the stuff from ver 6.x, then its pretty busy..... the twi velociraptors handle it fine- one for my c drive and one for my workdrive-- and the 1 and 2 tbs are strictly storage, this rig runs 6 drives- non raid dudes, i need the storage not the striping-gave up on raid a long time ago.
anyway heres the link-- make sure you understand what you are doing before buying and installing that ssd and read all the support stuff you can BEFORE you buy it and take it to a show - it will spoil you -- but how long will it hold ?
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/content.php?306-SSD-ABC-Guide
in the average computer , a SSD is an awesome thing, and im here to tell you-- the performance increase running dj software and anything else is incredible- HOWEVER -- most of the operators i know that have tried them have all had similar results - the larger the drive, the longer they last, because you have more cells to fry -- think of it like you would with a motorrized drive with sectors going bad that get reallocated-- as a cell dies, it simply moves that storage and function to another cell -- well-- eventually you run out of cells.
when the 40 gb i tried died it wnet from running like a scalded dog, to dead over the period of 43 minutes, and then would not reboot.
if your computer is a dedicated show computer, and that all you use it for, then that would extend things quite a bit --however - i built this tower to do whatever gig im doing -- that may be a live band where its doing lights or recording 4 tracks, or a karaoke gig, or a vocal demo or radio commercial project, or an ordinary dj gig - and i havent done a non video gig in over 2 years. so this thing is running nearly all the time doing something.when its not running its got its own anvil flight case it lives in.....
during the time i used the ssd -- the only thing on the ssd was the software itself - windows 7 hides a lot of folders where the action is to the average consumer, even to some of us that are slightly technically advanced --
im not saying its a bad product, its not at all, its a wonderful product - im trying to find a way to make it last longer in this world. when you do a lot of live recording, you need a separate drive- JUST FOR THE RECORDING FILES- and the faster the better if your doing multitrack - so when this thing is running dmx lights, recording karaoke singers and playing the stuff from ver 6.x, then its pretty busy..... the twi velociraptors handle it fine- one for my c drive and one for my workdrive-- and the 1 and 2 tbs are strictly storage, this rig runs 6 drives- non raid dudes, i need the storage not the striping-gave up on raid a long time ago.
anyway heres the link-- make sure you understand what you are doing before buying and installing that ssd and read all the support stuff you can BEFORE you buy it and take it to a show - it will spoil you -- but how long will it hold ?
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/content.php?306-SSD-ABC-Guide
Inviato Fri 14 Jan 11 @ 12:34 am
MixMaker
thanks for delving into the matter.
I was scared about getting stucked in the middle of a gig but now as it is clear that you were using a MLC SSD that it limit is 10,000 writes per cell, I guess using a SLC SSD we don't have to worry for a long time as the writing cycles are 100,000 per cell wich give us a much greater span life.
I guess a SLC SSD would give us at least 5 years of heavy duty, with wich I'm more than happy.
Anyway, It would be great having a word from VDJ developers about this.
I was scared about getting stucked in the middle of a gig but now as it is clear that you were using a MLC SSD that it limit is 10,000 writes per cell, I guess using a SLC SSD we don't have to worry for a long time as the writing cycles are 100,000 per cell wich give us a much greater span life.
I guess a SLC SSD would give us at least 5 years of heavy duty, with wich I'm more than happy.
Anyway, It would be great having a word from VDJ developers about this.
Inviato Fri 14 Jan 11 @ 3:32 pm
partyjumpin
I built a few systems with SSDs a few years ago. Both SSDs are still working, but one motherboard died from a bad video connection. All video system in clubs are not created equal. You must defragment every month for best performance. I use laptop drives now, we didn't see any advantage over time and the added cost was not worth it. Oh, only the boot drives were SSDs...
Inviato Mon 17 Jan 11 @ 12:36 pm
originalmadmanjohn
thats exactly where i am at-- - my problem is i carry too much crap to have that many 2.5 drives. however, in the interest of progress, and since OCZ was kind enough to warranty me another one, I figure I may as well be the debugger and try to figure out a way to do this.
Since my last post, i have found a way to move a lot of the files to my optional workdrive (velociraptor) by using the folder relocator in properties, and managed to move a few more by taking ownership.
at the moment- my full install of win 7 64 pro, along with, atomix 7, vegas pro 9, acostica mixcraft 5, venue magic dmx, microsoft office standard, and all microsoft updates and winamp weighs in at 8.72gb and gives me 29.28 free space on the ssd. everything that can be is on the workdrive.
and i still have the backup os on the other velociraptor. i will admit-- its hard to see much useable real life difference between the velociraptor and the ssd, but its definitely quicker on startup, and application execution. not seeing a big huge difference in virtual 7 pro preformance though.
anyway, ill keep this thread running- and if anyone actually finds a way to move the sampling point to a different drive please let me know. if it dies, you will all be second to know following me and OCZ.
Since my last post, i have found a way to move a lot of the files to my optional workdrive (velociraptor) by using the folder relocator in properties, and managed to move a few more by taking ownership.
at the moment- my full install of win 7 64 pro, along with, atomix 7, vegas pro 9, acostica mixcraft 5, venue magic dmx, microsoft office standard, and all microsoft updates and winamp weighs in at 8.72gb and gives me 29.28 free space on the ssd. everything that can be is on the workdrive.
and i still have the backup os on the other velociraptor. i will admit-- its hard to see much useable real life difference between the velociraptor and the ssd, but its definitely quicker on startup, and application execution. not seeing a big huge difference in virtual 7 pro preformance though.
anyway, ill keep this thread running- and if anyone actually finds a way to move the sampling point to a different drive please let me know. if it dies, you will all be second to know following me and OCZ.
Inviato Tue 18 Jan 11 @ 4:29 pm
originalmadmanjohn
oh and by the way, to partyjumpin - according to all i have read from most of the companies-- your not supposed to defrag a ssd-- however, occaisional cell consolidation is ok. with most outfits, defragmentation is a warranty issue
far as i know its no different from the slc based ones either.
far as i know its no different from the slc based ones either.
Inviato Tue 18 Jan 11 @ 4:35 pm
originalmadmanjohn
the other thing i would say-- i purchased these as an experiment during a black friday sale a year ago when the price dipped below 90$ for the day-- the original was a 30gb drive-- 90$ i can play with-- it was my chrismas present to me for the year-- i just wanted to see what everyone was talking about.
when ocz warrantied me back they sent a 40.
if i had to do it again, and had the extra money to throw around i wouldent buy anything less than a 120gb -- that would solve a lot of the problems right there- but if it was possible to move all WRITE functions to the motorized drive and just make everything that is on the ssd just the read only software files, then in perspective, then it may not die for a long long time and that what i am trying to do-- at that point ANY capacity would be fine.
and i still have the twin velociraptors...........
when ocz warrantied me back they sent a 40.
if i had to do it again, and had the extra money to throw around i wouldent buy anything less than a 120gb -- that would solve a lot of the problems right there- but if it was possible to move all WRITE functions to the motorized drive and just make everything that is on the ssd just the read only software files, then in perspective, then it may not die for a long long time and that what i am trying to do-- at that point ANY capacity would be fine.
and i still have the twin velociraptors...........
Inviato Tue 18 Jan 11 @ 4:46 pm