Blulite
hi guys im practicing mixing tracks which are in the same key and almost identical bpm, give or take a few.
im not sure why its happening but for some reason the mixes sound really really pants. although the tracks are the same key (Am) they just dont seem to go together.
could it be my timing? am i transitioning at the wrong points in the tracks?
is there any advice/help anyone can offer that might help me out. also is there somewhere i can research the key change to pitch ratio.
im sure i heard somewhere that 1.6bpm increase causes the key to increase by half a key. so would it go from (Am) to (Bm) or would it go from (Am) to (A#) or (A#m)??
i need to work thins out for a set im trying to work on.
im not sure why its happening but for some reason the mixes sound really really pants. although the tracks are the same key (Am) they just dont seem to go together.
could it be my timing? am i transitioning at the wrong points in the tracks?
is there any advice/help anyone can offer that might help me out. also is there somewhere i can research the key change to pitch ratio.
im sure i heard somewhere that 1.6bpm increase causes the key to increase by half a key. so would it go from (Am) to (Bm) or would it go from (Am) to (A#) or (A#m)??
i need to work thins out for a set im trying to work on.
Inviato Tue 18 Jan 11 @ 12:48 pm
djpanda818
try key lock on each deck....keylock will lock your key no matter what your bpm is example: if one song is at 130 bpm and the other is at 127 bpm tif you beat match the 127 one to 130bpm without the keylock then your key will change but if you key lock it then your key will never change no matter the bpm difference....hope this helps!!!
Inviato Tue 18 Jan 11 @ 3:16 pm
Blulite
no way!
i want to learn the correct way.
so far ive learned that a 6% increase/decrease of pitch will change the key tone by a half step or (semi-tone), so i can transition from say an (A#m) to a (Am) or vice versa without any damage to the quality of the mix.
ive also found that i can go a full tone and transition from (Am) to (Bm) or (D#m) to (E#m) with very little trouble. i have found however that in some cases of transitioning a full tone or more then dropping on a breakdown seems to work better than undermixing or beatmixing.
is there any ideas on key mixing between genres?
is it going to work transitioning in the same key to a different genre?
p.s
theres a lot more to dj'ing than just hitting buttons and watching waveforms. have you ever mixed with a set of belt drive turntables that come with only a +/- 10 pitch control? theres no sync, no key lock, no waveforms to look at, no bpm counter. just you 2 tables and a mixer.
well my current learning curve is digging deep into the nitty gritty technical aspects of mixing without any form of digital aid. though the digitisation is still there i want to do things the best i can with the help of small items like key and bpm lists supplied by the digital software.
i will never become a career dj if i dont force myself to learn the real skills and techniques involved. im going back to basics and learning the deepest aspects of said basics before moving on to bigger and better things.
ive still got pitch mixing to learn yet but im waiting on some cables to be delivered so i play with my direct drives.
i want to learn the correct way.
so far ive learned that a 6% increase/decrease of pitch will change the key tone by a half step or (semi-tone), so i can transition from say an (A#m) to a (Am) or vice versa without any damage to the quality of the mix.
ive also found that i can go a full tone and transition from (Am) to (Bm) or (D#m) to (E#m) with very little trouble. i have found however that in some cases of transitioning a full tone or more then dropping on a breakdown seems to work better than undermixing or beatmixing.
is there any ideas on key mixing between genres?
is it going to work transitioning in the same key to a different genre?
p.s
theres a lot more to dj'ing than just hitting buttons and watching waveforms. have you ever mixed with a set of belt drive turntables that come with only a +/- 10 pitch control? theres no sync, no key lock, no waveforms to look at, no bpm counter. just you 2 tables and a mixer.
well my current learning curve is digging deep into the nitty gritty technical aspects of mixing without any form of digital aid. though the digitisation is still there i want to do things the best i can with the help of small items like key and bpm lists supplied by the digital software.
i will never become a career dj if i dont force myself to learn the real skills and techniques involved. im going back to basics and learning the deepest aspects of said basics before moving on to bigger and better things.
ive still got pitch mixing to learn yet but im waiting on some cables to be delivered so i play with my direct drives.
Inviato Tue 18 Jan 11 @ 4:51 pm
Blulite
ive just found a website called
harmonic-mixing.com
im going to have a good read and see what i can pick up. it seems to be rather comprehensive so hopefully ill learn a lot.
harmonic-mixing.com
im going to have a good read and see what i can pick up. it seems to be rather comprehensive so hopefully ill learn a lot.
Inviato Tue 18 Jan 11 @ 5:20 pm
Blulite
can someone tell me please why 2 semi-tones isnt 1 tone??
ive discovered on the site im reading that ivebeen using one of the techniques for a while.
its called on the site and "energy boost mix", though i didnt know what this was untill i read it, i have been using key steps of 2 semi-tones or more for a while but never realised it was actually an advanced technique.
EDIT: whilst reading the site on harmonic mixing and moving onto modulation mixing i found this.
"Using these techniques you can almost make anything sound good togheter, maybe that is why djs who play by ear do mix harmoniclly without knowing it. It is easier to spot a disharmonic mix than a harmonic one."
ive worked out how i managed to use these techniques without knowing it.
i rarely use headphones.
2nd EDIT:
reading on i have discovered that the section outlining "energy boost mix" is actually one of the forms of modulation mixing used by many dj's.
does anyone else ever discover they have and use skills they never knew about?
ive discovered on the site im reading that ivebeen using one of the techniques for a while.
its called on the site and "energy boost mix", though i didnt know what this was untill i read it, i have been using key steps of 2 semi-tones or more for a while but never realised it was actually an advanced technique.
EDIT: whilst reading the site on harmonic mixing and moving onto modulation mixing i found this.
"Using these techniques you can almost make anything sound good togheter, maybe that is why djs who play by ear do mix harmoniclly without knowing it. It is easier to spot a disharmonic mix than a harmonic one."
ive worked out how i managed to use these techniques without knowing it.
i rarely use headphones.
2nd EDIT:
reading on i have discovered that the section outlining "energy boost mix" is actually one of the forms of modulation mixing used by many dj's.
does anyone else ever discover they have and use skills they never knew about?
Inviato Tue 18 Jan 11 @ 5:36 pm
Simon Bailey
Dont know about abilities I didn't know I had, but I have always harmonic mixed...I do tend to use the camelot wheel rather than key though...just easier to remember.
Inviato Tue 18 Jan 11 @ 6:16 pm
groovindj
I would suggest using Mixed In Key software to determine the key of your songs, rather than relying on what VDJ tells you.
If you were to believe what VDJ tells you, you'd think that 99% of songs in the world were in a minor key!
If you were to believe what VDJ tells you, you'd think that 99% of songs in the world were in a minor key!
Inviato Tue 18 Jan 11 @ 6:34 pm
Simon Bailey
@ Groove +1
Inviato Tue 18 Jan 11 @ 6:36 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
Or you could just use your EARS.....................They will never let you down, if they dont sound right together in your headphones then find another and so on & so on. You say you wanna learn the right way..............You probably do it any ways and dont even realize it. Like your listening to a track on the radio and think to yourself "Man I bet that would go good with ............". And I bet your either playing the bass line in your head or humming it, either way your doing it. Know you just have to train your mind.
Pratice, Pratice, Pratice............
Huey
Pratice, Pratice, Pratice............
Huey
Inviato Tue 18 Jan 11 @ 6:42 pm
Blulite
now you mention it huey, i actually do that lol. i never realised what it all was untill today.
@sai, ive only just come across the camelot wheel and am going to either print it out or use it as a desktop background so i can learn it by heart.
@groovin, how long does it take to scan? should i start with maybe 7-800 tracks over night and go from there or will mix in key scan my complete collection in a few hours (about 700gig)? thanks
...............................................................................................................................................................................................
when you guys say use your ears, i can relate to that easily as i rarely use headphones. i see your points in saying im probably mixing harmonically and not knowing it.
i actually didnt know it untill today. being a bedroom dj i never really bothered to do much research into different techniques untill i decided i wanted to take things further. i just played around and searched for things that "worked" once someting worked i just used it more often. i didnt even know half of my techniques had names untill today lol.
so whats the score with using harmonic or modulation mixing to transition between genres? does it work? i would try but its almost 1am here and im goosed.
@sai, ive only just come across the camelot wheel and am going to either print it out or use it as a desktop background so i can learn it by heart.
@groovin, how long does it take to scan? should i start with maybe 7-800 tracks over night and go from there or will mix in key scan my complete collection in a few hours (about 700gig)? thanks
...............................................................................................................................................................................................
when you guys say use your ears, i can relate to that easily as i rarely use headphones. i see your points in saying im probably mixing harmonically and not knowing it.
i actually didnt know it untill today. being a bedroom dj i never really bothered to do much research into different techniques untill i decided i wanted to take things further. i just played around and searched for things that "worked" once someting worked i just used it more often. i didnt even know half of my techniques had names untill today lol.
so whats the score with using harmonic or modulation mixing to transition between genres? does it work? i would try but its almost 1am here and im goosed.
Inviato Tue 18 Jan 11 @ 6:57 pm
SuperAceMan
Blulite wrote :
when you guys say use your ears, i can relate to that easily as i rarely use headphones.
when you guys say use your ears, i can relate to that easily as i rarely use headphones.
They're saying Use your headphones. That would be using your ears. Alot of us had to rely on our ears to DJ. No waveforms, no software, no internet!!!! We've been blessed enough to make the transition into the digital world.
Waveforms won't tell you that 2 songs clash together. You'll need to preview in a set of cans before you can deliver the product to an audience.
Just my thoughts
Inviato Tue 18 Jan 11 @ 9:14 pm
Tear Em 'Up
I'm going to do something here, which I despise..... quote myself....
Admittedly this is from another thread...but the message is still solid...
TearEmUp wrote :
I understand D&B is not my cup of tea but...there are some rules to blending that should never, ever be overlooked if your recording to publish. Number 1) use harmonic mixing. http://www.harmonic-mixing.com/HowTo.aspx There are numerous threads on it on these forums, do a search. Number 2) Try and keep the BPM difference to around 3%. Any more, or less, can effect how smooth the transition sounds. 3) Know your music. Keep the breaks in mind. Try and stay in the same genre. Don't jump around too much. If your not sure, it's probably not going to work. Here is a super slick tutorial on genres, and how to identify them http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/ Last but not least, and this only applies to recording to publish, know what your trying to accomplish. I spend days, weeks and, sometimes months planning my mixes. Keep those points in mind, and you should be fine.
If we're talking a live mix..all bets are off....the crowd rules your actions..not the mix....
If we're talking a live mix..all bets are off....the crowd rules your actions..not the mix....
Admittedly this is from another thread...but the message is still solid...
Inviato Tue 18 Jan 11 @ 10:22 pm
Blulite
@spaceman, the reason i rarely use headphones is because im a bedroom dj. im trying to get enough skills practice to make the move into mainstream.
not using headphones at home gives me a better feel of the music im playing so i learn faster. i know it seems strange, but its just my way of doing things.
not using headphones at home gives me a better feel of the music im playing so i learn faster. i know it seems strange, but its just my way of doing things.
Inviato Wed 19 Jan 11 @ 3:41 am
Mike Marble
Don't pay anything for this. Rapid Evolution does the same for free. (www.mixshare.com)
If you want to be really sure, you will always have to manually recheck the detected keys. The software solutions all get only so far.
My workflow for this task is like this:
- run RE on the tracks
- load the track into VDJ
- compare what RE and VDJ have detected
- if both agree on the key, then detection was probably right
- otherwise, RE is usually more likely right then VDJ
- in any case, open the piano in RE and play the detected chord and verify that detection is correct
Happy key'in!
If you want to be really sure, you will always have to manually recheck the detected keys. The software solutions all get only so far.
My workflow for this task is like this:
- run RE on the tracks
- load the track into VDJ
- compare what RE and VDJ have detected
- if both agree on the key, then detection was probably right
- otherwise, RE is usually more likely right then VDJ
- in any case, open the piano in RE and play the detected chord and verify that detection is correct
Happy key'in!
Inviato Wed 19 Jan 11 @ 1:17 pm
SuperAceMan
In order to make the move into the mainstream from the bedroom, you'll need to get a "feel" for a set of cans, especially when harmonic mixing.
The last kid who tried to take my job didn't use headphones either.
The last kid who tried to take my job didn't use headphones either.
Inviato Wed 19 Jan 11 @ 9:31 pm
Blulite
oh i do use headphones but not as much i as i dont use them. its not like i cant, i just dont.
i would say the main reason is if i cock up at home nobody hears it. i do use headphones when i dj partys of i have friends over.
i would say the main reason is if i cock up at home nobody hears it. i do use headphones when i dj partys of i have friends over.
Inviato Thu 20 Jan 11 @ 3:33 am