I'm looking for some pointers as how to mix R 'n B music. I'm doing mainly dance and trance mixing at the moment, but am looking to expand my possibilities.
Yet I have no clue as to how to start at this.
Yet I have no clue as to how to start at this.
Inviato Mon 04 Feb 02 @ 3:52 pm
RnB pretty current RnB pretty much goes from 89BPM to about 104 BPM. Then there is a gap... Starts back up at 130 BPM to about 146BPM.
It's pretty much the same ... Just listen for that Beat that makes your head nod.
I am the opposite, I am just getting into world music..ie Tosca, Natacha Atlas.....
For some current NY RnB sounds look at 987kissfm.com
It's pretty much the same ... Just listen for that Beat that makes your head nod.
I am the opposite, I am just getting into world music..ie Tosca, Natacha Atlas.....
For some current NY RnB sounds look at 987kissfm.com
Inviato Tue 05 Feb 02 @ 5:44 am
try this:
while the first song is playing, load the second song and forward to where the first beat is at, then cue that, now when the first song is on the first beat start ur second song and try to listen for the snares of both songs, which should be at the same time. if not pitch ur second song up or down. alos use the 'Visual Mix Window' to get the beat matched.
i hope i could help a bit
good luck
while the first song is playing, load the second song and forward to where the first beat is at, then cue that, now when the first song is on the first beat start ur second song and try to listen for the snares of both songs, which should be at the same time. if not pitch ur second song up or down. alos use the 'Visual Mix Window' to get the beat matched.
i hope i could help a bit
good luck
Inviato Tue 05 Feb 02 @ 8:08 pm
Mikey
I started out mixing heaps of trance, but now for some reason I'm focusing on Blazin' RnB and Hip-Hop. I wrote this up in another forum (with a few mods):
1. Calculate the bpm of each song. You probably already know not to rely on the automatically calculated bpm because it's usually wrong with the irregular beat found in most rnb/hip-hop. I've been using the Pitchfork plugin for winamp to do this. Pitchfork does not give decimal figures in it's bpm calculation, so I made beat loops in cool edit, one at 60bpm, one at 80bpm and one at 100bpm. By beatmixing this beat loop with the song, you can find the exact bpm!
2. As with any music, know your tracks, especially the length in beats of the intro and outro. Each song is of course different in this aspect, so make a note of each song in the comments column. The intro/outro lengths are usually quite short, maybe 16 or 32 beats at most, unlike full 12" trance/house mixes. You can use the loop function in Atomix to extend your mixing time. Or just drop the next track in. Try different methods. However, you probably won't want to mix the 2 tracks together too long, because of clashing vocals or beats. Beat match, but slide your x-fader over fairly quickly. If you like, drop in some samples (I'm waiting for v2.1 to be able to do this with an external mixer).
Something I've been doing recently is playing 2 RnB tracks at the same time, using one track as a sample, ie. sliding the x-fader halfway to drop in a vocal, then sliding it back again.
Anyway, this is how I do it. Step 2 would be useful for radio edits too, which don't have much lead in time, or start off with vocals or whatever.
Anyone please post some ideas!!
Mike
1. Calculate the bpm of each song. You probably already know not to rely on the automatically calculated bpm because it's usually wrong with the irregular beat found in most rnb/hip-hop. I've been using the Pitchfork plugin for winamp to do this. Pitchfork does not give decimal figures in it's bpm calculation, so I made beat loops in cool edit, one at 60bpm, one at 80bpm and one at 100bpm. By beatmixing this beat loop with the song, you can find the exact bpm!
2. As with any music, know your tracks, especially the length in beats of the intro and outro. Each song is of course different in this aspect, so make a note of each song in the comments column. The intro/outro lengths are usually quite short, maybe 16 or 32 beats at most, unlike full 12" trance/house mixes. You can use the loop function in Atomix to extend your mixing time. Or just drop the next track in. Try different methods. However, you probably won't want to mix the 2 tracks together too long, because of clashing vocals or beats. Beat match, but slide your x-fader over fairly quickly. If you like, drop in some samples (I'm waiting for v2.1 to be able to do this with an external mixer).
Something I've been doing recently is playing 2 RnB tracks at the same time, using one track as a sample, ie. sliding the x-fader halfway to drop in a vocal, then sliding it back again.
Anyway, this is how I do it. Step 2 would be useful for radio edits too, which don't have much lead in time, or start off with vocals or whatever.
Anyone please post some ideas!!
Mike
Inviato Fri 15 Feb 02 @ 4:36 am
atomix_djsarge
ok, the first 2 guys are totally of tha ball n dun know wat they are on about, so dont listen to them. the last guy is quite good.
Ok, firstly, the reason why you can easily mix Trance n techno and not RnB is, jus like the last guy said, due to irregular beat patterns in RnB n Hip Hop music. any RnB or hip hop song should be in between 70 - 115 bpm. if its not then its WRONG.
but rest assured, it is not that hard to work out the correct bpm. all you have to do is play a song, then get a stop watch n count how many beats there are in 15 seconds. then times that value by 4. as bmp = beats per minute.
An easier way to do this is, is to grab a BMP calculating program. There are programs out there that you can acutally "tap" out the beat on the pc. these programs are what i use as they give a very accurate correct decimal value. u gotta be super man (very fast) to get decimal values by doin it the "stop watch" way. try searching for "BPM COUNTER(s)" in a search engine like www.yahoo.com there are alot out there!
ok now we got tha bpm crap sorted out, how to do a proper mix!
The last guy was along the right lines, but thats newbie stuff if u wait till the outro to drop in a song. you can mix any song in beautifully! and u dont have to wait till the end of the song for the outro! trust me!
ok, if you grab any RnB HIP HOP song, and listen to the chorus of the song, you will notice that if u actually count the beats from the start to the end of the chrous, it goes for 32 beats! no matter how fast or slow, it will ALWAYS go for 32 beats ! ( please note very rarely some do actually go for 16 and some even 8) but it is always in multiples of 4. 4 X 2 = 8 , 8 X 2 = 16 , 16 X 2 = 32.
provided you cue a song with a 32 beat intro ( most songs do have a 32 beat intro) all u have to do is slap bang the first beat with the first beat of the chrous of the song thats already playing. and when the last beat of the chrous starts, then cross over. this is the "club style" mixing.
wat u shud do is, the next song u plan to drop in, make sure u cue it so, when u cross it over, its the chrous that it begins with, or something that really takes of. this way ppl will feel a "finish" and "end" of the mix, and it will sound alot more beautiful than jus droping it anywhere in the song.
try to stop using the "magic" key. as it is very unprofessional, and will make it very hard for u later on if u have to use a console. Use the space bar to play, the s key to stop and L key to loop if its a 16 or less beat intro. and P for pause.
so if its a 16 beat intro, u have to loop it twice ( 16 X 2 = 32)
to fit a 32 beat chrous.
if its an 8 beat intro u have to loop it 4 times ( 8 X 4 = 32)
If u stick to changing songs ova at beginging and end of a chorus, u will have a great mix!
so always drop in a next song at the begging of the already playin songs chrous.
when u get pro, u will be able to mix in 4 beat intro's and not have to loop them 8 times ( 4 X 8 = 32) but instead just drop it in on tha 28th beat so it matches up with tha 32 after 4 beats.
but for now stick to 32 beat intro's then u can move onto 16, then down to 8 then 4. then after that, u can use the "loop" key and loop in ur own single beat. Ive done this in some of my mixes
download them at: www.geocities.com/sarges_place
but be careful, some songs like liberty city - met her in miami,
do not have a 32 beat into, instead has a 34 beat intro
so u have to cut out the first 2 beats. But once ur a pro u will learn and it will come to u automatically how to 'use' those 2 extra beats.
this is the same with Naughty by nature - holiday. it has a 36 beat intro. so wat u have to do is cut out the first 4 beats.
ie. CUE it on the 4th beat.
oh if u still havent got it, a beat is NOT a spike on tha visual.
a beat cud be in between 2 spikes. if u count the beats while the song is playing, u will notice this.
so, 2 good songs to start of is wifey - next. ( 32 beat intro, 99.5 bpm) MAKE SURE U GET THE ORIGINAL. otherwise the bpm cud be different.
and also Horace brown - shake it up {cooltimes remix} (32 beat intro,100bpm)
if u cant find it, then jus mix wifey with wifey.
with these songs cue on the first spike as that IS the first beat.
MAKE SURE U ARE USING 2 SOUND CARDS, otherwise there is no way u can do club style mixing.
WITH THIS STYLE, YOU CAN MIX ANY SONG WITH ANOTHER, and if anyone dissagrees give me 2 RnB Hip Hop songs, and ill show you. ( ill put it up on the my web )
i cut the lesson real short here, but if u need proper instructions, goto my web site, there will be full lessons up on it soon.
and if ur a sick kunt, and have mastered wat i have just said, then here is a good exercise: CUE wifey at the 28th beat, and if u masterd the whole 32 beat thingy, then u shud know by now that if u cue it at 28, that means u have 4 more beats to go. try to mix it in now. first try loopin it from the beginging. then try waiting till the 28th beat comes on ths chrous then dropping it in, then corsssin over on the 32nd beat.
at first u will find ur self 'couting' 32 beats every time u mix a song in, it might get a lil annoying. after some good practice it will coem naturally to u. u will know f its a 32 beat intro or a 16 beat intro within the first 8 beats of the song, even if u never heard it b4.
SO GOOD LUCK!
my site again: www.geocities.com/sarges_place
contact me: nlsperera@hotmail.com
btw,my site is no where finish yet, so keep checkin back! mroe mixes to come!
ta,
DJ SARGE
Ok, firstly, the reason why you can easily mix Trance n techno and not RnB is, jus like the last guy said, due to irregular beat patterns in RnB n Hip Hop music. any RnB or hip hop song should be in between 70 - 115 bpm. if its not then its WRONG.
but rest assured, it is not that hard to work out the correct bpm. all you have to do is play a song, then get a stop watch n count how many beats there are in 15 seconds. then times that value by 4. as bmp = beats per minute.
An easier way to do this is, is to grab a BMP calculating program. There are programs out there that you can acutally "tap" out the beat on the pc. these programs are what i use as they give a very accurate correct decimal value. u gotta be super man (very fast) to get decimal values by doin it the "stop watch" way. try searching for "BPM COUNTER(s)" in a search engine like www.yahoo.com there are alot out there!
ok now we got tha bpm crap sorted out, how to do a proper mix!
The last guy was along the right lines, but thats newbie stuff if u wait till the outro to drop in a song. you can mix any song in beautifully! and u dont have to wait till the end of the song for the outro! trust me!
ok, if you grab any RnB HIP HOP song, and listen to the chorus of the song, you will notice that if u actually count the beats from the start to the end of the chrous, it goes for 32 beats! no matter how fast or slow, it will ALWAYS go for 32 beats ! ( please note very rarely some do actually go for 16 and some even 8) but it is always in multiples of 4. 4 X 2 = 8 , 8 X 2 = 16 , 16 X 2 = 32.
provided you cue a song with a 32 beat intro ( most songs do have a 32 beat intro) all u have to do is slap bang the first beat with the first beat of the chrous of the song thats already playing. and when the last beat of the chrous starts, then cross over. this is the "club style" mixing.
wat u shud do is, the next song u plan to drop in, make sure u cue it so, when u cross it over, its the chrous that it begins with, or something that really takes of. this way ppl will feel a "finish" and "end" of the mix, and it will sound alot more beautiful than jus droping it anywhere in the song.
try to stop using the "magic" key. as it is very unprofessional, and will make it very hard for u later on if u have to use a console. Use the space bar to play, the s key to stop and L key to loop if its a 16 or less beat intro. and P for pause.
so if its a 16 beat intro, u have to loop it twice ( 16 X 2 = 32)
to fit a 32 beat chrous.
if its an 8 beat intro u have to loop it 4 times ( 8 X 4 = 32)
If u stick to changing songs ova at beginging and end of a chorus, u will have a great mix!
so always drop in a next song at the begging of the already playin songs chrous.
when u get pro, u will be able to mix in 4 beat intro's and not have to loop them 8 times ( 4 X 8 = 32) but instead just drop it in on tha 28th beat so it matches up with tha 32 after 4 beats.
but for now stick to 32 beat intro's then u can move onto 16, then down to 8 then 4. then after that, u can use the "loop" key and loop in ur own single beat. Ive done this in some of my mixes
download them at: www.geocities.com/sarges_place
but be careful, some songs like liberty city - met her in miami,
do not have a 32 beat into, instead has a 34 beat intro
so u have to cut out the first 2 beats. But once ur a pro u will learn and it will come to u automatically how to 'use' those 2 extra beats.
this is the same with Naughty by nature - holiday. it has a 36 beat intro. so wat u have to do is cut out the first 4 beats.
ie. CUE it on the 4th beat.
oh if u still havent got it, a beat is NOT a spike on tha visual.
a beat cud be in between 2 spikes. if u count the beats while the song is playing, u will notice this.
so, 2 good songs to start of is wifey - next. ( 32 beat intro, 99.5 bpm) MAKE SURE U GET THE ORIGINAL. otherwise the bpm cud be different.
and also Horace brown - shake it up {cooltimes remix} (32 beat intro,100bpm)
if u cant find it, then jus mix wifey with wifey.
with these songs cue on the first spike as that IS the first beat.
MAKE SURE U ARE USING 2 SOUND CARDS, otherwise there is no way u can do club style mixing.
WITH THIS STYLE, YOU CAN MIX ANY SONG WITH ANOTHER, and if anyone dissagrees give me 2 RnB Hip Hop songs, and ill show you. ( ill put it up on the my web )
i cut the lesson real short here, but if u need proper instructions, goto my web site, there will be full lessons up on it soon.
and if ur a sick kunt, and have mastered wat i have just said, then here is a good exercise: CUE wifey at the 28th beat, and if u masterd the whole 32 beat thingy, then u shud know by now that if u cue it at 28, that means u have 4 more beats to go. try to mix it in now. first try loopin it from the beginging. then try waiting till the 28th beat comes on ths chrous then dropping it in, then corsssin over on the 32nd beat.
at first u will find ur self 'couting' 32 beats every time u mix a song in, it might get a lil annoying. after some good practice it will coem naturally to u. u will know f its a 32 beat intro or a 16 beat intro within the first 8 beats of the song, even if u never heard it b4.
SO GOOD LUCK!
my site again: www.geocities.com/sarges_place
contact me: nlsperera@hotmail.com
btw,my site is no where finish yet, so keep checkin back! mroe mixes to come!
ta,
DJ SARGE
Inviato Wed 20 Feb 02 @ 8:10 am
Mikey
heyhey yeah that's good stuff sarge, most of that i do anyway, but I didn't know how to explain it...neither did I really have the patience to type it all up! btw i neva said u have to wait for the outro...like any song, if u find a good moment to mix, then by all means...and in rnb, yeah one chorus followed by the chorus (or somethin bumpin) of the next song works best. but u taught me a few things too which i've been trying to work out, so thanks bro! btw went to ur website, r u from Melbourne? i live in sydney...
one thing i wanna work out is how do i go from a fast bpm song to a slow bpm song, or vice versa. like wu-tang - gravel pit has a pretty fast bpm, or sisqo's thong song, which works great on dancefloors, but is hard to mix...do u just hard mix? like, cue and drop in the next track on the appropriate beat? something i used to do was play a scratch sample...that helps to break it up...hope the new scratch feature in 2.1 sounds good...and works in a practical manner.
another thing, since i've got a laptop, i'm splitting up the left and right channels...but it still sounds great (tho obviously not as good as full stereo)
oh yeah also do u adjust eq's at all for rnb or hip-hop?
Mike
one thing i wanna work out is how do i go from a fast bpm song to a slow bpm song, or vice versa. like wu-tang - gravel pit has a pretty fast bpm, or sisqo's thong song, which works great on dancefloors, but is hard to mix...do u just hard mix? like, cue and drop in the next track on the appropriate beat? something i used to do was play a scratch sample...that helps to break it up...hope the new scratch feature in 2.1 sounds good...and works in a practical manner.
another thing, since i've got a laptop, i'm splitting up the left and right channels...but it still sounds great (tho obviously not as good as full stereo)
oh yeah also do u adjust eq's at all for rnb or hip-hop?
Mike
Inviato Wed 06 Mar 02 @ 2:53 pm