ViperVin
I just got my Timecoded Vinyls in the mail today and have been trying to set it up properly. I have the Philips Aurilium USB soundcard (WDM) using Asio4All drivers. For most songs I play, I get a weird sounding (i'm guessing the "chipmunk" effect from doing a search) tone. I made an example of this in the following to files of Bun B - Get It song: Original unaltered version-> http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~vamin/GetIt2Original.mp3 AND recorded through VDJ-> http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~vamin/GetItVirtualDJ.mp3 As you can hear, the VDJ recorded version sounds weird compared to the original. Any ideas on this? And also, is it normal for the pitch percentage to be constantly changing from -0.1% to +0.1% (it does not stay stable at 0.0%) ?
Inviato Tue 24 Jan 06 @ 4:24 am
DJ_whiteDVL
alright well just like any turntables out there the platter will always cause you a fluctuation of +\- 0.1-0.3%. This is normal. If you want a steady pitch get some CD decks instead hehe.
For the sound that is being worked on for the next update and there will be some major stuff coming out especially for TCCDs and TCVs as well as overal sound.
Best Regards
DJ White Devil
For the sound that is being worked on for the next update and there will be some major stuff coming out especially for TCCDs and TCVs as well as overal sound.
Best Regards
DJ White Devil
Inviato Tue 24 Jan 06 @ 5:04 am
apopsisdj
I heard your samples.
Check your timecode setup page.
Do you get 100% TC quality there ?
Check your timecode setup page.
Do you get 100% TC quality there ?
Inviato Tue 24 Jan 06 @ 5:39 am
ViperVin
Here is a screenshot of my TCV setup. I do get 100%, but it does jump to as low as 70% every couple of seconds.
http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~vamin/tcvsetup.JPG
And this is a screenshot of the pitch not being stable at 0.0%. In this picture, I captured it when it jumped to -0.4%. So this is normal?
http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~vamin/tcvpitch.JPG
http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~vamin/tcvsetup.JPG
And this is a screenshot of the pitch not being stable at 0.0%. In this picture, I captured it when it jumped to -0.4%. So this is normal?
http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~vamin/tcvpitch.JPG
Inviato Tue 24 Jan 06 @ 10:04 am
listen2
there is almost nothing you can do to change the fact that turntables will have a variable, better TT seem to only vary +/- 0.1 but some can get higher. The fact is that you probably wont notice any difference in beatmixing execpt with long beat matching. In reality thats how you mixed with your TT before you had VDj so nothing is different. It would be nice if the software did compensate allowing better control, maybe in the future.
Inviato Tue 24 Jan 06 @ 2:27 pm
ViperVin
So the sound problem is just inherent in the VDJ engine? I don't underestand because when I play songs in the standard mode (full software), without the use of low-latency timecoded vinyls, there aren't any sound hiccups. TCVs only describe the time position to VDJ, I do not see how it affects music/sound quality. Is there anything else I can try? This is pretty important to me because I was planning to buy and use VDJ at parties with over 200+ people. This will be a major problem with the music sounding funky.
Inviato Tue 24 Jan 06 @ 7:42 pm
ViperVin
I think I fixed the problem, but another one popped up. I had to increase the tracking force on my TT and now I get 100% quality most of the time. I wish I didn't have to do that because I can see the needle eating away at the vinyl. Other than that, now I have a huge latency issue (I am guessing greater than 30ms) that I did not have before. I have no idea where this problem came up from because the latency was working fine last night.
Inviato Tue 24 Jan 06 @ 8:18 pm
DJ_whiteDVL
best way to fix the latency issue would be to check your buffer in the ASIO4all settings. but using a demo version at a live party just sounds silly to me. If you were to get a better soundcard (ASIO preferably) you'd be getting as low as 2-5ms and one user here seems to get down to 1ms.
as far as the hickups go check these options and make sure they are disabled
timestretch
limiter
make sure when your playing your songs keep the gains @ -4.0 you should have much better quality of sound.
Best Regards
DJ White Devil
as far as the hickups go check these options and make sure they are disabled
timestretch
limiter
make sure when your playing your songs keep the gains @ -4.0 you should have much better quality of sound.
Best Regards
DJ White Devil
Inviato Tue 24 Jan 06 @ 8:22 pm
ViperVin
Oh yeah, playing demo during a party would be useless. I am just trying to test it out and making sure TCVs work with my setup. Once I am happy, I will buy the full license. I will play around with the buffer and see if that makes improvements. Does VDJ need to be restarted every time I make an update to Asio4All's settings?
Inviato Tue 24 Jan 06 @ 8:57 pm
listen2
yeah i'd say for home use asio4all is ok and maybe a small gig, but if you doing 200+ then you need a better soundcard. I'm not sure about ASIO4ALL's settings but i think its best if you close VDJ and reopen, i have found that once the sound gets "funky" you have to minimize or close and restart to return to normal. describe your setup with pc specs and it might be easier to help you. How much RAM do you have??? also you mention "full software" if you are testing with a "cracked" version it may only add to the funk, just a heads up.
Inviato Tue 24 Jan 06 @ 9:54 pm
ViperVin
Specs:
Compaq X1000 1.4GHz Centrino
384mb DDR RAM
Technics 1200 MKII
Gemini BPM-250 Mixer
Ortofon Pro Needles
"Full software" I mean just mixing with VDJ in the default sound configuration and not using the TCVs. Right now I am testing using the demo v3.3 and I just want to be sure everything works cool with the 1 enabled TCV. Once I know the quality and latency works with one of the TTs, I will buy the license for my gigs.
Compaq X1000 1.4GHz Centrino
384mb DDR RAM
Technics 1200 MKII
Gemini BPM-250 Mixer
Ortofon Pro Needles
"Full software" I mean just mixing with VDJ in the default sound configuration and not using the TCVs. Right now I am testing using the demo v3.3 and I just want to be sure everything works cool with the 1 enabled TCV. Once I know the quality and latency works with one of the TTs, I will buy the license for my gigs.
Inviato Tue 24 Jan 06 @ 11:30 pm
listen2
the sound breakups are due to your RAM, you need a 1 Gb to play it safe
Inviato Wed 25 Jan 06 @ 1:00 am
apopsisdj
ViperVin, great to see your problem solved, i was wondering if it was something with your needle when i saw the timecode waveforms you posted.
About the latency, you just need a soundcard with good asio drivers (asio4all is not the solution) and enough ins/outs, and Virtual dj full version.
About the latency, you just need a soundcard with good asio drivers (asio4all is not the solution) and enough ins/outs, and Virtual dj full version.
Inviato Wed 25 Jan 06 @ 2:50 am
acw_dj
ViperVin,
I also notice the antiskip option checked, uncheck that too as well as limiter and timestrech. Use that all disable please. Also to get less than ±0.4% of change use ±34% in the Range pitch (VDJ->Config->General->Pitch Range=-34% to +34%) and you will have less change with TCVs. It will give you the same pitch control at your TTs but with less annoying % change in the pitch in VDJ skin.
If you could get at last 512MB RAM to play music with TCVs and VDJ. If you are going to use Video, then use 1GB RAM.
With ASIO4ALL you can move some buffers settings to get a better sound, but your system isn't as fast at it should to do all ASIO processes without you notice that. Is better to get an ASIO card when you are ready. Just use the Demo and TCVs to get you and Idea of what it could be done be VirtualDJ, but if you are really serious to play with TCVs at a gig, I recommend you to use an ASIO compatible soundcard for sure.
Good Luck!
I also notice the antiskip option checked, uncheck that too as well as limiter and timestrech. Use that all disable please. Also to get less than ±0.4% of change use ±34% in the Range pitch (VDJ->Config->General->Pitch Range=-34% to +34%) and you will have less change with TCVs. It will give you the same pitch control at your TTs but with less annoying % change in the pitch in VDJ skin.
If you could get at last 512MB RAM to play music with TCVs and VDJ. If you are going to use Video, then use 1GB RAM.
With ASIO4ALL you can move some buffers settings to get a better sound, but your system isn't as fast at it should to do all ASIO processes without you notice that. Is better to get an ASIO card when you are ready. Just use the Demo and TCVs to get you and Idea of what it could be done be VirtualDJ, but if you are really serious to play with TCVs at a gig, I recommend you to use an ASIO compatible soundcard for sure.
Good Luck!
Inviato Wed 25 Jan 06 @ 9:08 am
ViperVin
Thanks for all the input and help. I was playing around with the TCVs last night again and I noticed that my time code quality signal dramatically drops as I get into the inner area of the vinyl. It starts off at 100% on the outer area, then slowly drops to 75% in the middle area, and by the time I am running out of vinyl groves its at ~5% and barely plays my song. I tried using both vinyls I ordered, both sides of the vinyl, and hooked it up to my other deck and all same problem. Any ideas?
Inviato Sun 29 Jan 06 @ 2:33 am
acw_dj
ViperVin,
You have a bad tracking. that happends when these parameters are note setup well. Maybe you are using a straight tone arm and note and "S" tonearm in your TTs. What are the make and model of your TTs and your cartdriges?
You have a bad tracking. that happends when these parameters are note setup well. Maybe you are using a straight tone arm and note and "S" tonearm in your TTs. What are the make and model of your TTs and your cartdriges?
Inviato Sun 29 Jan 06 @ 7:15 am
DJ Cyder
acw,
sounds like the old Sure sm44 problem to me :) Could be a unlevel turntabe as well or the anti skate adjustment is wrong. That or the needles are junk. Run the nightclubs by far the best needle I've ever used (aside from the new digitrack ones).
sounds like the old Sure sm44 problem to me :) Could be a unlevel turntabe as well or the anti skate adjustment is wrong. That or the needles are junk. Run the nightclubs by far the best needle I've ever used (aside from the new digitrack ones).
Inviato Sun 29 Jan 06 @ 8:12 am
ViperVin
What "parameters" are you refering to? I am using Technics 1200s MKIIs with Ortofon Concorde Pro cartridges (as seen here: http://www.zzounds.com/item--ORTPRO). It is odd because for most of the vinyl, I get 90-100% Timecode quality, but in the inner area of the vinyl, quality dramatically falls.
Inviato Sun 29 Jan 06 @ 8:12 am
ViperVin
What's this old Sure problem? I am not sure about unlevel turntable because my actual desk is level as can be. Anti shake adjustment is set at 0. My link on the last post doesn't link properly, these are my needles: http://www.zzounds.com/item--ORTPRO
Inviato Sun 29 Jan 06 @ 8:15 am
DJ Cyder
check out the specs on that needle
Output voltage at 1000 Hz, 5cm/sec.
5 mV
Channel balance at 1 kHz
2 dB
Channel separation at 1 kHz
20 dB
Channel separation at 15 kHz
15 dB
Frequency range at - 3dB
20-20.000 Hz
Frequency response
20-18.000 Hz
+ 3 / - 2 dB
FIM distortion at recommended
tracking force, DIN 45.542
< 1 %
Tracking ability at 315Hz at
recommended tracking force
70 µm
Compliance, dynamic, lateral
7µm/mN
Stylus type
Spherical
Stylus tip radius
R 18µm
Equivalent stylus tip mass
0,5 mg
Tracking force range
3,0-5,0 g
(30-50 mN)
Tracking force, recommended
4,0 g (40 mN)
Tracking angle
20°
Internal impedance, DC resistance
750 Ohm
Internal inductance
450 mH
Recommended load resistance
47 kOhm
Recommended load capacitance
200-600 pF
Cartridge colour, body/stylus
Silver / Silver
Cartridge weight
18,5 g
Replacement stylus unit
PRO
Wow that cart needs a lot of weight on it! The problem with the old shure needles it was very difficult to set up as the needles required a ton of weight to track properly. Its too bad you arn't a full user, acw has done a great job explaing how to properly configure a turntabe.
Output voltage at 1000 Hz, 5cm/sec.
5 mV
Channel balance at 1 kHz
2 dB
Channel separation at 1 kHz
20 dB
Channel separation at 15 kHz
15 dB
Frequency range at - 3dB
20-20.000 Hz
Frequency response
20-18.000 Hz
+ 3 / - 2 dB
FIM distortion at recommended
tracking force, DIN 45.542
< 1 %
Tracking ability at 315Hz at
recommended tracking force
70 µm
Compliance, dynamic, lateral
7µm/mN
Stylus type
Spherical
Stylus tip radius
R 18µm
Equivalent stylus tip mass
0,5 mg
Tracking force range
3,0-5,0 g
(30-50 mN)
Tracking force, recommended
4,0 g (40 mN)
Tracking angle
20°
Internal impedance, DC resistance
750 Ohm
Internal inductance
450 mH
Recommended load resistance
47 kOhm
Recommended load capacitance
200-600 pF
Cartridge colour, body/stylus
Silver / Silver
Cartridge weight
18,5 g
Replacement stylus unit
PRO
Wow that cart needs a lot of weight on it! The problem with the old shure needles it was very difficult to set up as the needles required a ton of weight to track properly. Its too bad you arn't a full user, acw has done a great job explaing how to properly configure a turntabe.
Inviato Sun 29 Jan 06 @ 4:36 pm
